Episode 286: Barbara Gruber & Ashley Grady: Supporting Accessibility and Inclusion at the Smithsonian Institution

This week, we share Chris’s interview with Barbara Gruber and Ashley Grady! Barb is the Assistant Director for Education for the National Air & Space Museum, and Ashley is the Senior Program Manager for Access Smithsonian (access.si.edu), the accessibility office for all 21 Smithsonian museums.  Barb and Ashley discuss their work in the area of inclusion, the ways the Smithsonian is incorporating feedback from the disability community, free leveled teacher resources from the National Air & Space Museum, and more!

Before the interview, Chris and Rachel finish up chatting about Chris’s recent visit to the International Society of Technology and Education (ISTE) conference. Chris talks about Jordyn Zimmerman’s presentation with Apple, shares the only AAC-focused vendor at ISTE 2023, and challenges everyone to learn about new resources and ideas by  attending conferences like ISTE and following Ed Tech specialists on social media.

Key Ideas This Week:

🔑 Twenty-one percent of people with disabilities have employment. This is an increase from 2008, but not enough - we need to continue to support more pathways to employment for people with disabilities!

🔑 Access Smithsonian brings in “user experts” who are members of different communities, including communities in the disability space, who are paid to share their feedback about current, and future, exhibits and learning materials.

🔑 The My Flight, My Space portal can be used to access content from the National Air & Space Museum that can be filtered and adjusted for things like reading level, length, and topics. This helps to make their digital experience more accessible and interesting to visitors.  https://nasm.infiniteach.com/ 

🔑 The National Air & Space museum has a Learning Resource page for teachers that is aligned to standards and put into categories to search things like grade level and age. https://airandspace.si.edu/learn/learning-resources

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Transcript of the Episode

Please Note: This transcript was generated using speech recognition & AI tools; it may contain some grammatical and/or spelling erro

00:00:09
Welcome to Talking With Tech. I'm your host Rachel Madel, joined as always, by Chris Bugaj. Hey, Chris.

00:00:14
Hi Rachel. Are you ready for my Part 2 of ISTI 2023?

00:00:18
Yes. Let's go.

00:00:19
All right, so we went through three things last time, but this time there's only two other things on my list. And what I really want to talk about is and what I was really impressed by. Well, I'm going to say impressed, but also slightly disappointed. So let me explain. IST is this guy has a giant vendor hall.

00:00:39
You could spend pretty much the entire conference just walking around, talking to all the vendors, looking at all the cool stuff, discussing all the different technology you could be talking to. Many of them I often do about the accessibility features built into different products, but there's a huge opportunity in. In this space for again, like I mentioned last week, companies that work in a system technology to bring their product to a more global audience and recognize that these two worlds need to merge, right? This is the the the Venn diagram of these circles needs to continue to cross to eventually become one circle, right? And you?

00:01:21
They're not quite there yet and so I like to champion and shout out. Companies that would be at A at an ATIA or Closing the Gap that actually spend time and send resources to an edtech to an edtech conference to kind of propagate the notion of inclusivity of working with people with disabilities and primarily in our case AAC. And so there was only one company that I saw this year that was an AAC company. And so a big shout out, we are not sponsored by this company. We have never been sponsored by an AAC company, right?

00:02:03
Is that right?

00:02:04
No, right, correct.

00:02:07
And that is Toby Donovox. Toby Donovox was there showing off some AEC tools. Now primarily they were there showing off board maker as A as a tool, but they were there and they were there, you know discussing AAC and discussing visual supports. And I there was no other company there, no other company that is a. That primarily works in the disability space, so I just wanted to shout them out there they were there.

00:02:35
I made sure I I made an effort to go by and thank them for being there because. You know, it's, I wonder how much immediate money they make from a conference like that. Do you know what I mean? I feel like they're planting seeds for something that might grow five years down the line, but they're probably taking a loss. You know, they're probably not going to get the board maker subscription subscriptions they need to cover the cost of having a booth and sending people there.

00:03:02
But it's still is the right thing to do to to help bring these worlds together, so. I just wanted to give it that that as a shout out and then the so the last thing on my list was there was a session by Apple where they invited Jordan Zimmerman and so I went to go see Jordan. I didn't. I.

00:03:22
I I felt.

00:03:23
Like going up and saying hi to her, but then it was one of those things like they were there Mikey, you know, they were like getting her set up and getting her Co host there like miked up and there was you know logistics being worked out and I didn't want to go like. And so I just kind of sat in the back and you know, I tweeted her afterwards what a great job it was and and what a great session it was because again, Jordan can convey the message. She's so much better than other people and to people that need to hear it at an Ed tech conference like that. And I've been following her work online and going, seeing different conferences she goes to and and Apple I think are often bringing her different places and giving her an opportunity to share her message like we discussed here in the podcast. If you go back and listen to the Jordan Zimmerman episode, it's a different audience that we're probably currently not reaching here on the Talking with Tech podcast.

00:04:15
I love that. I love. I've seen Jordan present and I feel like her message is really powerful and I love that interview. That was one of the top interviews I feel like we've done and her story is really profound and so I'm happy that she was out there presenting that to, again, a group of people that really needed to hear that message. Sometimes I feel like it's the people who are at the specific kind of conferences that we go to.

00:04:42
It's like we're kind of preaching to the choir. It's like we really need to expand our reach to really make an impact. And I feel like it sounds like that's exactly what happened here with Jordan.

00:04:52
Well, Speaking of expanding our reach, that is sort of a take away that I had from the conference is about what would I do differently next year and that is myself and the inclusive 365 crew were there and we were invited to participate in a playground session. So what playground sessions are is they kind of rope off these these different sections of a giant hall and they focus around a different topic for a given number of hours. Like I don't maybe 2 1/2 hours and you go during the session and it's sort of like a poster session where people walk around different tables and you talk about this topic. Ours was the inclusive learning playground and something we a take away we had is. What if we didn't have an inclusive learning playground?

00:05:38
What if there was just an inclusive learning was embedded in all the other playgrounds that happened, and so it wasn't its own separate thing, it was a part. What if in the future years, it was part of everything else? So for instance, another playground is a computer science playground? Well, I happen to know that there were people talking about inclusion there, but what if there was somebody? What if it was something like that?

00:06:04
Like any whatever the other playground is, there was somebody that was focused on accessibility tools and and helping again, bring those two circles more, helping those two circles of Ed tech and assistant tech. Helping them become just one circle of tech.

00:06:23
I love it. I love it. Chris. I'm curious about ISTI because we've been talking about it for the last two episodes and I feel like I'm I'm ready to roll. I need to get to ISTI.

00:06:34
Is that something that SLPS go to and can get continuing education credit for?

00:06:39
Well, sure. Yeah. So absolutely. And in fact, like I said last, last banter. So I already knew this speech therapist, but she was at the conference and then her and I got she was actually in the Dungeons and Dragons sessions with me, but then she was also at the inclusive learning.

00:06:56
Playground that is Kim Zajak, who then I invited to come on the podcast and since we've recorded and it's sitting in our queue, so her and I think would both agree. Yes, this is absolutely a place for speech language pathologists who are who are wanting to learn more about technology. You are going to have so many great connections, you're going to meet so many great people, and of course you're going to move the needle for inclusivity. When you have these discussions, I would highly suggest not just going but also presenting like they need more of us to be a presence at these conferences.

00:07:30
Yeah. I think that it's one thing that people are always kind of asking is like how do you find out about all these different tech things and tools? And the first thing I say is, well, I talk to Chris Bugaj every week and he is on the pulse, but it's also just kind of going and seeking out information, right? And so I think that if you could be the person in your district or the practice that you work in that is kind of always sharing some of these new technologies and ideas, Think about how powerful that can be for all of the students that you're working with on your caseload. And it's just like it's great to be the person who comes with like a fresh idea or a new tool or a new idea on how to use a tool.

00:08:13
I just, I love that. And I feel like that could be you. So you can seek out the information and it feels like ISTI is a really good kind of one stop shop to do lots of different things with lots of different technologies and people and it's kind of all included in one event.

00:08:28
I would also suggest that if you can't make it to an ISTI, ISTI has statewide affiliates. I mean, it's called the International Society for Technology and Education. So depending on what country you're in, there might be affiliates in your country. But certainly United States, every state has its own affiliate and you could go to your local Ed tech conference and connect with people there. And then I would also suggest this is the time to branch out on social media and start following some people that work in the Ed tech space.

00:08:59
So you listeners to this podcast might be following speech language pathologists on Instagram and X and whatever other social media tool they they might be using. But. Branch out, follow Ed tech people. You're going to find stuff and you're going to make connections that they wouldn't even know they could make because they're not working with the with. They might not necessarily be working with the types of learners that you're supporting.

00:09:24
I'm a big fan of following people kind of outside of the field of speech, language, pathology. I just feel like, you know, so many times I'm scrolling and I see like, huh, that's not directly related to what I do, but here's exactly what I could do with this. And so I feel like those fresh ideas really energize me and really empower me and really get me thinking outside the box. And I feel like it's really great to have other, you know, professionals that you're learning from outside of your specific, you know, profession.

00:09:54
Well, Speaking of professionals that are sort of outside of our scope, this is going to be a whole episode about that because so who the interview is that's coming up is with Barb Gruber and Ashley Grady. Now Barb Gruber and I again, you're going to hear this in the, in the episode, in the interview. Again, you're going to hear this in the interview. But Barb Gruber and I work together for Loudoun County Public Schools, and she is was in the edtech space and then went to work for the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum. And so Ashley Grady works with Barb Gruber.

00:10:28
Ashley Grady focuses on accessibility. And so we're going to talk in this particular interview all about the STEM field and how to get more people involved in STEM.

00:10:48
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00:11:02
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00:12:02
Welcome to the Talking With Tech podcast. My name is Chris Bugaj and today I have the great fortune of being joined by Barb Gruber and Ashley Grady. So Barb, did I say your name right?

00:12:14
Yes.

00:12:14
Absolutely. So Barb, quick history here. You and I know each other. We've we had the great fortune of working together for Loudoun County Public Schools. Now back in that those days, what was your job title?

00:12:27
So I was the technology resource specialist, so I supported technology resource teachers and technology assistants that were in the school, so I worked at the district office.

00:12:39
And I worked in assistive technology. I had back in those days I was an assistive technology trainer. But then I have now I'm a specialist, I'm the assistive technology specialist. But but then Barb, I'm going to put it this way, you flew away. You went moved on to different, different job opportunities.

00:12:55
What are you doing now?

00:12:57
Yeah. So, yeah, So Loudon County has this very unique position with the National Air and Space Museum. It's called the Aerospace Educator in Residence. And I was looking for a change and I jumped into that position, Spent a couple years at the Stephen F Udbarhazzi Center, which is part of the National Air and Space Museum. And then at the end of my two year term, the museum offered me a position.

00:13:30
So now I am their Assistant Director for education and my emphasis is on school programming. So I work with any programs that are pre-K through 12th grade, reserve programs on the floor programs, camps, teacher, professional development, all of that falls under me. You're right, Chris. Totally. Five years ago when I, you know, or seven years ago now, I never would have seen myself in this position.

00:14:03
And you know, here I am. I'm a I'm still a student pilot. I own an airplane. Never would have had those things in my future when I was working back in Loudoun County.

00:14:16
Well, I just have to say that's super exciting and I've had the great fortune to go to some of the events cause I've known like Mike Spidell was in that position and not that the world's going to know who Mike Spidell is yet, but will growth mindset will someday everyone will know who Mike Spidell is, but I know he helped organize some of those events when he was in that position that you described. And so I just know they are top notch accessible experiences that are inclusive of everybody that really helped bring forth the world of STEM to to everybody.

00:14:46
Yes.

00:14:48
OK, so that's you, Barb, but we're also here joined with Ashley Grady. Did I say your name, Ashley? And who are you and what do you do?

00:14:54
Yes, absolutely. So again, hi, I'm I'm Ashley Grady and. Very similarly to Barb, my journey to the Smithsonian was not a straight line. I started as a special education teacher in Raleigh, NC and then eventually found my way to the Washington, DC area. And my focus as a teacher was always on transition age students, usually 14 and up.

00:15:21
And my passion was always employment, especially for individuals that have cognitive or intellectual disabilities, and back in 2013. 14 A job opened up at the Smithsonian to start an internship program specifically for young adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities to help them gain those job skills and and potentially seek employment at the Smithsonian or in museums in general. And now I'm the Senior program manager for Access Smithsonian which is the central office of accessibility for all 21 Smithsonian Museum. So very similar to Barb. Like you know when I.

00:15:59
Went to my 20 year high school reunion. No one could believe that I worked at the Smithsonian or that I even worked at a museum. But it's been really amazing to see the broad impact that this work can have that definitely built upon the work that I did in the classroom.

00:16:16
So actually, I just want to comment on a few things you said there just today. Just now I was working on a grant for a project that we're working on. And one of the things that I was writing up in this grant led me to some research about employment statistics from the Bureau of Statistics or something in statistics. Yeah, it's a federal agency that that provides this, these numbers on employment statistics for people with disabilities. And it said that 21 percent, 21% of people with disabilities are employed.

00:16:44
Which and it was sort of in the in the article that I was reading it was sort of championing that because that is an improvement over like where we were in 2008. But still it's like well that's not great like 21% of people with disabilities. So the fact that you're focusing on that and your role is it has brought you to that. It to me is is really exciting and really empowering.

00:17:05
Yeah. No, thank you for saying that and I I will say it is. It's interesting that here we are in 2023 and yes, we're excited about 21% employment, but you know those figures are even lower when we're talking about cognitive or intellectual disabilities or neurodivergence or neurodiversity. So again, the progress we've made is great, but we have so much further to go and it it really. Starts with increasing representation, you know in our staff, in our volunteers, in our interns and and thinking about making those processes more inclusive that the hiring process, the recruitment process.

00:17:42
So it's it's definitely a journey, but I'm I'm excited to be on it.

00:17:46
So something else here is that another population that we're talking about that sort of spans up those disabilities is people who use augmentative and alternative communication devices and. For for many years now, something that I've been championing and trying to learn more about is coding and STEM because there's this relationship between learning language using communication devices and coding. Coding is a language. And that has led me to some experiences like this. So that meaning it's sort of what we're going to talk about today at least start off talking about today is sort of adjacent to to the OR maybe a part of STEM, right.

00:18:23
So Barb, tell us a little bit about the myflight Myspace learning platform, what that is, how it came to be, what you're hoping it will be. Just tell us all about it.

00:18:34
Sure. So Myflight Myspace is an interactive portal that we work with an outside contractor to develop and it was really worked. We worked with it to make discovery and learning on our website a little more accessible to all. If you haven't visited the National Air and Space Museum website, we have so much on it that it can be overwhelming for students. And so the what the portal does is it allows users to customize kind of what they want to learn about including like the level, the length, the topics and create their own little if you will page that then content that they can engage with and then we've also incorporated.

00:19:29
A system of rewards in there for completing lessons or activities or meeting learning goals. It really was meant to take this massive amount of information that we have and in multiple formats kind of filter it down for students knowing we, I mean, we know kids are interested in rockets, spacecraft. Airplanes, astronauts, You know, how how do people go to the bathroom in space? I think that's like one of our most favorite topics. So knowing what really interests kids and putting them in a portal that allows you to filter out some of that.

00:20:20
I don't want to call it noise because it's not noise to everyone, it's it's just not relevant to that age group. But we we made this portal with a contractor who has done this with other museums and really it's the the goal is to give a a a much more personal experience with our content. We launched it a couple years ago right when COVID hit. So you know it's it really it while it targets students, we also see that teachers have can have A use for this in getting their students engaged with our content. But ultimately the, the targeted population are students and I will plug Ashley here because as we were designing the platform and and pulling the content, Ashley was able to get us those end users to test on and really facilitate that testing.

00:21:26
And Ashley, if you want to talk a little bit about that, I'm happy to hand off to you.

00:21:32
Yeah. Now thanks. Thanks for the plug, Barb. Chris, did you want me to jump in?

00:21:36
Please, we want to hear all about it.

00:21:38
Yeah. So I have to say this is one of the most exciting things that we do at the Smithsonian and and certainly something that we're hoping to see more museums kind of take on over the next several years. And and that is bringing in user experts as we call them, IE you know the communities that we're trying to reach, that we're trying to serve. And for us that that means people with disabilities and historically, you know, when we're talking about effective communication or building new exhibitions, you know? Oftentimes, decisions are made on behalf of a group instead of actually having the community, the audience that you're trying to create community with in the room and leading and driving those conversations.

00:22:22
So Access Smithsonian has a group of individuals with all different types of disabilities, ages, backgrounds, communities, geography, lots of diversity, and we bring them in to meet with amazing people like Barb to provide. That guidance, that feedback, sometimes it's it's actually physically testing something like a website. So that that perspective is a part of the design process early and often hopefully. And another thing that was really, actually exciting is we were able to do this virtually because as as Barb mentioned, this was right when we were heading home in 2020. So we were able to have people.

00:23:04
Test a website from their own home and and provide that feedback. So it was a really, really great partnership.

00:23:11
That's super exciting and let me ask a couple follow up questions. So first is and make some connection and correlations here. So the first one is. Something we often hear in the world of AAC we're really working with, with a school age population of kids with disabilities is they're not motivated by anything. And it's like, well, have you tried everything?

00:23:32
Like, have you tried Minecraft? Have you tried playing these certain sorts of games? Have you tried robots? Have you tried Air and Space Museum, the Myflight Myspace learning platform? Because I guarantee you there is stuff that you just haven't showed them yet that might really catch their face.

00:23:49
Fancy that's that's the first comment and and so this. I would invite people to go to isitnasm.infiniteach.com Did I say that right? Did I get there? And we'll have that in the show notes, but to explore it so that they can to do the next thing that I think is really important for educators to do, which is often to be the ones who facilitate and and get people excited about these things they don't know about yet. Oh, I don't know.

00:24:15
I don't know that I'm excited about yet, 'cause I don't 'cause I don't know about it, but a teacher can be the one that can get them excited by being that that, that bridge that that's sort of their job is to show you new things, right? Is that all fair and does this platform sort of help you do?

00:24:30
I I think it does. And you know to me and Chris this is from our past history, nothing is more important than empowering the student to control their learning. And and I think that this platform does it. The kids pick what they want to learn about and really it engages with their their desires and their interests. And to me, that's what you spoke to it beautifully with the motivation.

00:25:00
And and I love you bringing up Minecraft, 'cause you know, I love Minecraft. And it's like anything like Minecraft has so much capability to to teach coding and all those higher skills and a lot of those anchors are like, what is interested? We we we're watching all the Artemis missions, you know, playing out in front of us. And we have, you know, the history of human Space Flight at the National Air and Space Museum. And So what is more cool?

00:25:34
Why was it the Apollo missions and why is it now, Artemis? Do people realize that they're brother and sister and that Artemis is actually a woman, which is why we're talking about a woman being the first woman on the moon? I will say that I will not call out individual members of my family, but people who I am related to did not realize that Artemis was a woman and the whole relevance there. But that to me, that's what's so cool. You can learn about, you know, how the Cold War actually got us to the moon and all of that process going through it with our exhibits that are available digitally.

00:26:18
And then if you haven't been to the National Mall building, we just reopened our West End galleries and Destination Moon is just an amazing experience to go through history and science and technology to see how we got to the moon. So yes, I'm going off track here, but. Yeah, but these are we have that capability of exciting.

00:26:45
Yeah, these these are exciting opportunities and like they really do kind of capture the imagination by looking at the history, but then where we're going in the future and and sort of painting a picture for our learners that you get to shape this future, right Ashley, something I wanted to dig in that you had mentioned was bringing in people who have disabilities to help evaluate or create the experience themselves. And so you it sounds like you had some connections from your past if people wanted to do that. There a way that they could connect with you and it seems like maybe I just tell me, do they get some sort of compensation for their time for participating? I'm guessing they do, based on how you said how we set up the beginning of this this conversation.

00:27:28
Yeah. Now those are great follow up questions Chris and and I would say certainly people can can contact myself or the Access Smithsonian office to learn more about it. And and I will say that yes, we do offer an honorarium and and form of compensation. That's another thing that you know historically a lot of times we ask the disability community to come in and and do things for free or say, oh, can you do this in your spare time. And the reality is if someone is providing advice or guidance, whether it's lived experience or professional experience, combination of both.

00:28:02
We need to be compensating them in the way we would compensate any expert. So that's definitely a a priority and and I think that it also helps especially with some of our like younger user experts again demonstrating the value in their time and and the value in the work that they're doing to help create a more inclusively designed space, right. Because we're at a point now where. Accessibility is is the bare minimum, but we need to be striving for inclusive design and having projects like the one we worked on with Barb, where again, we're thinking about all users, we're thinking about what's going to motivate. Different people.

00:28:44
What are the different ways that people can experience this game or this website? It's making it so that there's as many choices as possible, and that's what inclusive design is all about, right? And and AAC right is we want people to feel as independent as possible, to communicate their wants, their needs, what's interesting, what's fun. So it's it's a great combo.

00:29:06
Where have you been hiding, Ashley, all these years, Ashley? So some of the things that you're saying really speak to me. So with my job official job title is assistive technology specialist and the team that I work with are facilitators of assistive technology or specialized instructional facilitators of assistive technology. But about five years ago, in our own minds and the way we brand ourselves on our T-shirts and our our logos, our inclusive design, we don't. We think of assistive technology as one component to how we can design better experiences.

00:29:40
It's not, here's this experience, how can we make accommodations for people with disabilities, It's how can we design the experience for everybody. And so you're just really speaking my language here for for how you're so kind of painting the picture of how things are designed.

00:29:56
Yeah. And I think something that a good kind of rule of thumb, if you will, is if you're designing for both ends of the spectrum, meaning that the spectrum of life, if you will, everybody in between is going to benefit. So if you have an audio component, if you have a visual component, if you have a tactile component, you're hitting so many different preferences and interests there. I use the example. I think captioning is like the most relevant one over the last several years.

00:30:25
How many times do we turn on captioning in Zoom meetings or when we're watching Netflix? And that may be a tool that was developed for maybe a specific audience, but everyone can benefit physically accessible entrances, you know, Yes, individuals that maybe have mobility disabilities or might use other types of equipment, parents with strollers, It's also really nice if they don't have to, you know, push those strollers upstairs. So it's it's all about meeting as many people as possible.

00:30:55
Absolutely. Again, and could not have said it better myself and I would think so much of what we do in A, in our world of of assistive technology, inclusive design is helping sort of shine a spotlight on those sort of accessibility features that are used by everybody, not just people with disabilities. Everyone can use them or whatever your abilities might be, you might find them beneficial or useful. I saw Barb was raising her hand at captions, saying yeah, I use them all the time.

00:31:24
I my husband is very grateful that I use them all the time. Otherwise I'm like, can we turn this up so I can hear what's going on? Or if I'm watching a British show I have to have the captions on.

00:31:38
So Ashley, let's Barb. You're working at one particular museum, the Uvar Hazy and Air and Space Is it both Air and Space museums? So firstly the rest of the world probably doesn't realize that there's actually two locations, but tell me again.

00:31:52
So we are one museum, two locations. Technically we have three locations, the other isn't open to the public. But yeah, I work for the National Air and Space Museum and so Chris I my office is at the the Stephen Stephen F Udvar Hazi Center but I work at both locations. So I go downtown a a day or so a week and and I also work at hazi but and Chris knows I live right by Ozzie. So you know if I have my preference, I'm just going to drive the five or 10 minutes into Ozzie.

00:32:28
But we do have two museum locations. The one downtown was closed, is currently being renovated the West End gallery. So half of the museum has reopened, the other half is still we're still doing construction on that. So but Ozzzy's wide open.

00:32:45
And Hozzy still has one of the space shuttles in it, right?

00:32:50
Yes, it does. So it has space shuttle Discovery and it has a few other aircraft. There's there's about 3000 artifacts on display at Hozzy. So when people say, oh, it's that other museum, it's a very different experience. Hozzy is set up as a hangar.

00:33:09
So you know, we have the first Concorde there, we have the Enola Gay, we have Space Shuttle Discovery, multiple aircraft that just would not fit in the downtown museum, so.

00:33:24
I think Barb too listeners to this podcast who who know me would be disappointed if I didn't point out the fact that the the that the museum was highlighted in the movie Transformers 2 with. There's one of those, one of the. Planes there transforms into his old time transformer, right? And there's even.

00:33:42
Do you still have like, the clips of the movie playing there at the I don't think the clips are up anymore. But yes, the Sr. 71 Blackbird, which is a signature plane at our museum, was in Transformers. Now as far as what was behind the museum when he transformed and went out, I have never seen that. I've been here seven years, so you know, clearly there's some artistic license there.

00:34:09
Same thing with Wonder Woman 1984. She went to the Air and Space Museum and somehow we had planes all fuelled and ready to take off. I I'm not sure where we do that, but I'm more than willing to, you know, visit there.

00:34:24
So that's some creative license by Hollywood there to make the stories fit now actually. So, so Barb works at one location, but you're working with the other was did you say 21 or 22 locations access Smithsonian's for all the Smithsonian locations. Is that fair? You're muted.

00:34:44
Cut that part out. So yes, Access Smithsonian works with all Smithsonian museums. Right now we have 19 physical locations and we're building 2 new museums. The National Museum of the American Latino and the National Museum of American Women's History and my office, which Full disclosure. We're small right now we have 3 full time staff for 21 museums.

00:35:07
So I I certainly, well, I would love to be able to like teleport myself from location to location. We rely so much on the partnerships with people like Barb in terms of working with educators, working with exhibition teams. To help provide guidance and technical assistance to them and we also help with program development, helping with exhibition design a lot of different things to to support the museums.

00:35:36
Actually, just can I dig into that for a second? So let's say an exposition.

00:35:40
An exposition exhibit.

00:35:44
An exhibit, OK, yeah, let's say an exhibit is being created. Is there some sort of protocol that makes sure that OK, we got to contact Ashley and her group to make sure that it's accessible? How does that sort of how do you weave your way into experiences to sort of ensure from a from the ground up that they're built, accessible with inclusive design as a component? Again, as opposed to, I wish she had called me in because I would have told you we needed to do it this way rather than that way.

00:36:10
Exactly. And and you know that still happens. It's it's a reality of of learning every day and and of trying to again increase education and awareness around inclusive design. The great news is we have an inclusive, an inclusive design specialist in our office who's really, really skilled at training and also like you said, kind of starting to meet with different exhibition teams from the beginning, sometimes as early as concept, you know, when they're just thinking about. We're going to redesign 10 galleries in the Air and Space Museum.

00:36:41
What are they going to be?

00:36:43
What are our?

00:36:44
Accessibility. Priorities going to be how are people who are blind going to access digital interactives? What type of environmental factors do we need to think about in terms of different sensory elements? You know what type of? Font or size that we're going to use for labels, all of those components come together.

00:37:05
I I wish I could say Chris that we could be at every single design meeting, but again there's three of us. But that's where we really, again we do as much as we can in terms of language education, training, training, training, training and and also understanding that, you know, we want the museums and our colleagues. To start to feel more confident and and have that you know, ability to make these decisions on their own so that inclusive design becomes their priority too. And not just Access, Smithsonian's priority.

00:37:40
Yes. OK. So Ashley, again, your work and my work are aligned because that's exactly what we do is we have Barb since you've left Loudon. Some of the things that have have changed in the last couple of years is we are an integral part of the. Whenever we're onboarding new technology, we review it from an accessibility lens to say, OK, if we if we get this, these are the sort of things that you should know about that might be problematic or not like oh wow, look how this choose this because this is really accessible.

00:38:11
Same thing from a digital materials perspective, before we buy textbooks and materials, we look at those so that it's sort of systemic and built in. Ashley, just a follow up question. There a barrier we face and why overall, you said training, training, training is in education. We had a huge turnover rate, which has only gotten worse in the last number of years. Is that something you face as well or or like?

00:38:36
No, actually things are more stable for us. We don't have that, that higher turnover rate, 'cause I feel that's a barrier, right? We trained you, and now you left. And now maybe you take those skills to another organization, which is still great for the world but not so great for the Smithsonian, you know? Read your thoughts.

00:38:52
Yeah, that's a that's a great question, Chris. And I think it it definitely goes both ways. I would say in general we're we're relatively lucky at the Smithsonian where you know it's a great place to learn to work and again we have really, really amazing colleagues and support. But that's one reason too when we're advocating for training, we're advocating to train an entire team. One thing that I see a lot certainly within accessibility is.

00:39:18
We tend to rely on like one program or one individual to be that access champion or to be that person who's our liaison and like you said, what happens when that person leaves? So that's where again like so I don't want to just talk to Barb, I want to talk to Barb's boss. I want to talk to the educators that work with Barb. I want to talk with the contractors that are on the floor doing the different demonstrations with the education parts so that it really is a museum wide approach as opposed to just you know, trying to rely on on one person who probably already other already has 50,000 other things on their To Do List every day, right.

00:39:57
Yeah, for sure, for sure. All right. So tell us some of the things that are that you're excited about for the future. I mean, here we are talking about science, technology, engineering, math, space and flight and aeronautics, and it's really exciting stuff for such a wide variety of people have an interest in these sorts of things and if not they they they might yet. And they need to learn that they might be interested in that kind of stuff.

00:40:21
They might not have just had the the the drops in the bucket, the experiences yet to to learn that they're interested in it. So what are you excited about when it comes to the future of education with regard to the work that you're you're doing at the Smithsonian Barb. You want to go?

00:40:35
First, one of the one of the things I put down as as the front of my list also involves Ashley and it's a program called Morning at the Museum and we are not the only museum that does this, This is. Something that happens at a lot of the other museums, but it's it's an opportunity for students to experience the museum without the crowds. They come in in the morning. We, you know, they might be sensitive to noise or a lot of light and so we have activities throughout the museum to engage them, but they come in before the public comes in. And they have this opportunity to kind of have the place to themselves.

00:41:21
We've, I've seen well I've been a part of two or three of them. We haven't, we obviously haven't done one since COVID. I think our next one is scheduled for October, but Ashley can talk about some of them that are happening around at other museums this spring and possibly summer.

00:41:43
Tell us more, Ashley.

00:41:44
Yeah, definitely. So morning at the museum, it's a program that was created all the way back in 2009 and our our pilot was in 2011. So we've really had a great opportunity to grow the program over the years and you know we we definitely welcome all individuals and and and families. Who, as Barb said, can benefit from being in the space when it's not open to the public and that isn't necessarily tied to like one particular disability. It it really is for whoever needs it.

00:42:19
What I think is really exciting is that what I hope to see is the materials and the supports that we think about for morning at the museum. How do we prioritize those things? Every day out of the year, right? Like, if I'm going to create a really comprehensive sensory guide for the National Air and Space Museum, because I know that a lot of the morning at the museum, families can benefit from using it, what about all of the students? What about people that are coming any day of the week, Right.

00:42:51
So it's how can we help? Encourage and and train and support the education teams around the Smithsonian to start to implement some of those supports into everyday things that we do.

00:43:05
Yes, I love that, Ashley. I mean, right. Because again, back to the concept of universal design. Why wouldn't it be something that we could use anywhere, anytime for anyone? You, you design it for everybody.

00:43:17
I'm wondering too about like educators coming to one of those experiences and being like oh, look what they did there. I could take that back to my classroom and do that. Or I can take that back to my school and do that and it becomes sort of infectious. And the guide, the guidelines that you're talking about, like the sensory friendly guidelines or just inclusive design guidelines is starts to perpetuate that way. Oh yeah, I I now design my instruction with that in mind.

00:43:42
Cool. What else are you excited about?

00:43:45
South One of the things that the National Air and Space Museum implemented in October slash November. I talked about this. A lot of resources, right? And when you go to the website, at least for a teacher looking for lesson plans. Or activities or videos.

00:44:08
They really had to go to multiple places. So one of the things that we worked on over the past year and a half was taking anything that we felt was valuable to a pre-K through 12 teacher and putting it in a learning resource page, a searchable database of our resources we went through and aligned them to standards. We pulled them into categories. We put a lot of metadata on them that would help a teacher in searching grade level, age, whether it's available in Spanish, if it's a video, does it have closed captioning? Things like that.

00:44:54
So it it took us about a year. We have about 700 resources that are in this database. And it keeps growing because we keep creating content. But now it is AI feel. It's a very teacher friendly way to to get to some of our content.

00:45:16
Where before you would have to click on different programs, you would have to, you know, you could do a Google search. Sometimes you'd come up with a Lesson plan, sometimes it would be the video that comes with it. Sometimes it might be a handout. All of these things are now in one place where we you know a teacher can consume that hopefully much easier.

00:45:42
Well it looks beautiful. I mean I just pulled it up here and I'm looking at the how it's so clean the design and how it is just easy to follow and right at the beginning is the the different search and how you can search for things and and seems awesome. And this again could be really useful for working with kids. You pull something up and show them and really kind of tickle their imagination right. So, so awesome.

00:46:07
Yeah, we and. And the other thing is at least when we design our our lesson plans and that we do so in Google because we want teachers. Being a former teacher at Ashley, you could probably speak to this. Nothing's more frustrating than getting APDF that you then have to go modify in order to to make it fit your classroom. We we feel very passionately we put things in Google so that a teacher can download it and make it their own, tweak it, use whatever part they want of it and throw out the rest and not have to spend an hour trying to reconfigure it.

00:46:49
And Barb, I'll say it, I'll say it so Ashley doesn't have to say it. It's chances are it's more accessible if it's in The Ashley.

00:46:57
No. Yeah, no, I'm. I'm furiously nodding my head and and, you know, applauding from afar because exactly. I mean PDF materials and and so many digital materials can be really inaccessible for maybe people that use screen readers or other types of assistive technology like that. So.

00:47:15
Exactly. And again, that's Barb and her team prioritizing inclusive design. You know, for everyone. Teachers, students, and everybody in between.

00:47:24
Yes, awesome. Awesome. Anything else you're excited about?

00:47:28
So the other thing I I wanted to include is just a plug to all of our reserve programming that we do at the museum. We do some downtown, we do some only at Hozzy. And we also, because of COVID actually came up with three or four virtual programs that have become very popular. So that idea of we're not just here to serve the DMV, we're here to serve the world, if you will. And we wanted programming that anyone around the world could consume.

00:48:04
We have a virtual planetarium show that is very popular. It's a facilitated program. We have story time, which I can't speak enough about. Our amazing pre-K through to our early childhood educators. They do a virtual story time.

00:48:24
They do on site story time, and there's only two of them. So when Ashley talks about not having a lot of staff, and then during COVID, when we wanted to put stories out, copyright didn't let us just put things out. So Anne Kaspari and Diane Kidd have written original content and tied it to craft time. So we've got. I want to say 40 plus videos that are original stories that are tied with a craft time for early childhood and that has just been amazing and that's available on the website through either searching that or we have them on our YouTube channel.

00:49:11
So we really, I think as a museum as as much as COVID cost. Plus, in some ways it gave us opportunities that we never would have had if we had remained open. Because I was able to pivot my staff to to doing these digital experiences that really have expanded our reach.

00:49:35
Yeah, and we'll live on infinitum for years and years to come, not just one off, one off experiences. That's amazing. And I have to say, you know, that really speaks to me because, you know, my wife and I wrote those children's stories years ago and did a whole podcast, Night Light Story. So original children stories, really, I want to go check those out, right. I want to go see.

00:49:54
And so much of what we talk about on this podcast is literacy and using language. So tying your, your teaching kids how to use their communication devices to generate language and to comment on what they like, tying it with these sorts of stories just sounds like a perfect fit. So I totally want to go check that out. Plus then you said like reserve programming. You can you can scheduled times to have some of these experiences.

00:50:22
So we do have, we have drop in and reserve story time at, we have drop in at Hozzy. Right now we're doing just reserve story time at the National Mall building just because the crowds are just too great. We have Steam Labs that happen at Hozzy, which are a 60 minute activity that classes come into and there's some type of. Engineering design challenge that goes along with the classes. We are piloting engineering design challenges at both locations.

00:50:56
We also have virtual and in person science demonstrations that are explainers deliver. Ashley briefly mentioned them. These are high school and college kids that we employ that are the best facilitators. They are far better at it than I am. And it's great because it's that near to near peer engagement where a kid walks up on the museum floor and here's someone that could be their same age or not too many years ahead of them delivering the content and being an expert in Air and Space.

00:51:35
So we do have lots of reservable programs that are available locally and virtually. But again, we wouldn't have had those virtual programs if COVID had not happened. We just had to pivot very quickly and it gave us that that space to build a program that we purposely chose scheduling and that so that we could sustain it when we reopen.

00:52:04
Awesome, awesome. Ashley, is there anything you want to share?

00:52:08
I mean, I want to share everything now. I think that kind of this is really great because I can kind of build off of what Barb said, but take it in a different direction where what really excites me is that we now have more of a combination of these like reserved or against specialized targeted programs. But we're also starting to see a focus on everyday access and thinking about like. What types of technologies or improvements can we make so that someone can use their own communication device or their own technology to experience something in the museum or on the website or from their home from their computer? And those types of technologies are becoming.

00:52:50
More accessible for people that need them. We're starting to see more and more training so that people actually know how to build these systems and these technologies, so that they're more accessible for anybody that needs them. And I think seeing that increased focus again on independence, not everybody wants to come to a museum and go on a tour or go to some type of guided experience and everything we've talked about today is really leading towards. Individuals having the most individualized, independent and and just meaningful experience that works for them and I'm really excited to see so many museums start to prioritize that and and museums like the Air and Space Museum really really are pioneers and and leaders in that. So it's really exciting to see other colleagues kind of take note.

00:53:42
Yeah, it's all about choice, right? I do. I want to go as a group or do I want to try and do this by myself or how do I feel in this? What are my abilities? How do I feel in a certain moment?

00:53:51
And so I I couldn't agree more. You're you're you are you Barb are a leader. But Smithsonian, as as a whole, is a leader in making prioritizing this as a as a way to share content with the world. All right, last question. Here's how I really like to wrap up my interviews and that is to ask you, you're curious people that are thinking about the future.

00:54:14
Is there something right now, like right now as we record this, I can't flip open my phone or my computer without something about artificial intelligence hitting me in the face. Is there something that is exciting you right now that you're curious about, or that you're wondering about, that you're researching yourself as curious learners? What's sort of tickling your your your curiosity bone?

00:54:41
Well, yeah, I mean you speak of artificial intelligence and that and and I think one of the things in aviation right now that is really kind of that cutting edge are those drones that like think of a taxi cab or an Uber that is an airplane that you would get into. They have been very cool and there are several companies that are really on the verge. Of having a marketable product that people could get in and and travel. If you think about a drone that looks like it can hold a person, they really are operational. The the challenge is just getting that network in place to make it so that it actually can get you where you need to go.

00:55:30
And one of them that we've been working with is beta. And it's an electronic vehicle. And so right now their limitation is they use a charger just like you would for a Tesla, an electric car. And So what the The funny thing with their story is they will realize they put a charger out for their aircraft up in Vermont and Tesla's were starting to go up because it pulled up on their network. But getting them down to visit us, the challenge is they don't have enough charging stations.

00:56:04
In a path to get them there, and theirs is a piloted one. But there are also other companies that are looking at autonomous vehicles that would get people there and from as as someone who is studying to be a pilot, I'm, I'm blown away that an aircraft could do this without some type of intervention by a person. As overwhelming and all the things, having all those things that you've got to focus on it, it kind of blows my mind that that's a real possibility and it's not 20 or 30 years in the future. It really is five years out. So to me that's that's kind of one of those really cool things that I don't know that I'm ready to give up my plane and not be a pilot, but.

00:56:57
It really would take flying to to a whole new group of people.

00:57:01
New heights you might.

00:57:02
Yes, new heights.

00:57:05
Well, you know, Barb, I think there's some implications for people with disabilities there too, right? I mean transportation and navigating transportation, getting from one place to another can be a challenging situation for for many different people based on their different abilities. And so having some sort of way that I could program in my destination and it automatically takes me there could could really be an accessibility boon for a lot of people. Ashley, what sort of piqued your interest?

00:57:35
No, I was going to say my, my. Wish List is going to be innovation in wayfinding and navigation. So it's a really great segue because I, I, I do really think we're starting to see a lot of tech companies really, really come up with amazing solutions. Whether it's, you know, related to navigation and wayfinding for people who are blind. Whether it's using beacon technology so that they can get live in the minute.

00:58:01
Navigational instructions to get from A to B, knowing that there's a crowd of 8th graders right in. In front of them, right. And and again thinking about another big thing is systems like different, you know AI platforms or or AR or VR. Those, as you mentioned, Chris, aren't always. Built excessively.

00:58:22
And I'm really, really excited to see some companies again as they're building newer versions of these platforms and these systems, prioritizing accessibility from the start so that, you know, moving forward like all of the new versions, all of the new updates. We'll have some of those features just just built in. It's an understanding or it's an understood, you know, we're going to have to cut this because I completely lost my train of thought there. It's it's built in, you know, from the beginning and and I think that technology can really, really take us to places that we couldn't have ever dreamed of in terms of inclusive design and accessibility. But also remembering that like we can't only rely on technology and and a lot of it too has to do with like attitudinal, you know bias and and making sure that we're continuing to just promote inclusion, diversity, equity access and inclusion and everything.

00:59:18
So I could not agree more. And again, I know there's sometimes we have developers listening to this podcast, many times they're working on AAC but developers in general, you had said it earlier in the podcast how if you can design for everybody and you think about the people with who who have a wide variety of abilities, then you design for everybody. And I just have a feeling that the companies that are working on transportation, mobility, AI, if they prioritize that, if they design there, they will be the ones who win in the end. Right now, I sort of feel like we might remember the day of the app race, all the apps came out and it was like this app, this app, and how do we keep control of them all? And I feel like AI is having that same sort of thing and a handful one, you know, like there's a handful of apps that we all use and maybe there's a new app every couple years that we sort of gravitate to.

01:00:13
But mostly it's it's there's some winners and there's a lot of companies that sort of fell off the radar, I think the way you ensure your company does. Doesn't follow the reader or as you prioritize accessibility.

01:00:23
Exactly. And you increase representation, right, Like that goes back to what we talked about at the very beginning is we need to be hiring more people with disabilities in these companies, in these organizations. So that again that representation is also there at the table when these conversations are happening.

01:00:39
So yes, it's just a much more well-rounded more more people would be accessing your your tool and you wouldn't. Be leaving people out, right. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on here. Let me, I did say I I did say that was the last question.

01:00:53
But I do have one last question. If people wanted to go learn more about the Myflight Myspace experience one more time, what's the website? If they wanted to check out the learning resource page that you were talking about or the reserve programming, Where would people go? What's the best way to learn more about Access, Smithsonian? Give us all the shout outs and how people can go learn more.

01:01:13
So I will say that the Myflight, Myspace and the Learning Resource page are on the Air and Space Museum's website andthatisairandspace.si.edu. So not an ampersand, but the the word and and still all of our stuff is linked through there.

01:01:34
Excellent. We'll make sure we have that in the show, Notes and Ashley.

01:01:38
Yeah, so if people want to learn more about Access Smithsonian, they can also go to our website, whichisaccess.si.edu. Pretty easy to remember and we have resources for visitors. Also professionals. You know, the Smithsonian guidelines for accessible exhibition design, Inclusive digital interactives. And if anyone you know wants to reach out, they can always just e-mail our office as well.

01:02:01
Awesome.

01:02:02
Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking with Tech Podcast.

01:02:06
Thank you for having us, Chris. It's always good to connect.

01:02:09
Yeah, thanks for the the connection, Barb. I really appreciate it. This was great.