Episode 346: Christina Schmidt: Empowering Families Through Culturally Competent AAC

In this episode, Christina Schmidt discusses the critical role of cultural competency in AAC, emphasizing the need to honor linguistic and cultural diversity, such as African American English, within communication systems. She highlights the importance of clinicians addressing their own implicit biases and taking a thoughtful, reflective approach when working with families. Christina encourages professionals to build trust gradually, prioritize collaboration, and empower both caregivers and clients to ensure AAC systems truly reflect the user's identity and culture!

🔑Cultural Competency and AAC Must Go Hand-in-Hand: Christina emphasizes the importance of recognizing and respecting cultural and dialectal diversity—especially African American English (AAE)—when programming and implementing AAC systems. Ignoring these cultural elements can undermine identity, communication authenticity, and trust between professionals and families.

🔑 Clinicians Must Address Their Own Implicit Biases: A foundational step in becoming culturally competent is self-reflection. Christina encourages professionals to examine and challenge their own internalized biases before engaging with families. This self-awareness ensures more respectful, equitable, and effective service delivery.

🔑 Building Trust Takes Time and Intention: Establishing a culturally responsive relationship with families—particularly those from marginalized backgrounds—requires patience, ongoing reflection, and intentional rapport-building. Clinicians are urged to create safe spaces, validate cultural expressions, and engage in continuous learning to truly support meaningful communication through AAC.

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Transcript of the Episode

Please Note: This transcript was generated using speech recognition & AI tools; it may contain some grammatical and/or spelling errors.

Rachel Madel
Welcome to Talking with Tech. I'm your host, Rachel Madel, joined as always by Chris Bugaj. Hey, Chris.

Chris Bugaj
Hey, Rachel. Well, we've got a listener feedback question to to review today and talk about and see what we have to say about it. So Are you ready?

Rachel Madel
I'm ready. Let's go.

Chris Bugaj
I am a long time fan of your podcast and an SLP and Early intervention in the state of Michigan. I currently work in our Birth to Three program known as Early On. As a part of our program, we provide Birth to three supports for 20 different school districts in our county. We have been working really hard to create supports and structures for an early on AAC team and working through creating a system that supports our primary service providers in educating and implementing AAC. Not all service providers are SLPS. Our team is doing an incredible job in a variety of ways. However, we keep coming back to one question. This question was brought up on the podcast. In the interview with Kristen Hughes and Amy Kennedy, you Chris talked about the importance of matching the light tech board with what the district is mainly using for high tech. In this case it was lamp words for life. Where we are struggling is we have created an early on core board but when our children turn 3 they transitioned back to their local school district for services. Some of our three to five services have systems they prefer such as TD, SNAP or LAMP Words for Life but others do not. With 20 different districts are we way off base creating our own and should we be matching the core that we think the child may use if they move into their local students school districts programming after three? Something we are also getting kickback on from the district is that if we are matching the program for the child and early on So what they are using in the classroom for three to five special education supports, then there is a level of predetermination before the IEP takes place. Just curious your thoughts. I know every state offers different zero to 3 supports and that this may not be a question for the general masses, but it is something that we seem to be debating regularly and would love your input on. So what do you think?

Rachel Madel
This reminds me of a few slides in one of our talks, Chris, because we actually, I would disagree here in the sense that it actually is a great question for the general masses. In fact, it's not just specific to this organization or early intervention. So many SLPS and teachers are using core boards and resources that they've made themselves. And so, you know, I think the question comes down to the idea of motor planning and supporting AAC long term, which I think was kind of embedded into this question, but not explicitly stated. So if we're starting off with a core board that we've made for all of these schools and then the students transition, the idea is that we've did so much great modeling and support with one specific AAC system and then we're moving to something different. And so we've lost the motor plans that we could have been learning and we're not necessarily thinking long term if we know that the system's going to change one day.

Chris Bugaj
Totally, totally.

Rachel Madel
I was like and drop the mic, no. So I mean, I think that This is like a really big challenge that a lot of clinicians face. And I I think that if we're really doing our part and we know how long it takes for students to learn motor planning and to practice using an AAC system, then we have to be thinking long term and we have to be thinking designing with the end in mind. And I think based off of this question, if we know that many of the AAC systems that are used in this district or are TD, Snapper, lamp, then why are we not using screenshots of those systems in order to support students who might be transitioning from a paper based AAC to high tech.

Rachel Madel
You know, down the line. Mm Hmm.

Chris Bugaj
All that makes sense and you know that's exactly what I'm thinking too let me yes and that I'm going to start at the end of this question here where it talks about predetermination. This is has been brought up for a long time when it comes to providing supports. It was one of the first criticisms of this specific language system first approach. It's aren't you predetermining and therefore undoing or somehow going against the principle that the IEP team gets to decide. And my answer to that is, and in this case it's the same. No, it's not. And let me explain why. If that was the case, then we wouldn't be using any visual supports at all. You would have to have an individual IEP meeting to decide. I don't know, are you doing symbol sticks or are you doing bliss symbols or are you doing what? Like no one, you can't, you can't possibly do that for every single support. So how would you draw the line between what is a Tier 1 support that you provide to everybody if you had to do, if you, if you said that anything, anything is predetermination, right? So just to be exceptionally clear here, there's not a reason why AAC should be called out separately for predetermination. Then let's say seating, you know, do does everyone get a chair or should they have a vestibular disc or should they get the chance to walk? You know, I mean, I don't know, bounce on their seats, you know, like no one gets a chair. Nobody does until we have an IEP meeting and decide what they need, right? Like it doesn't make any sense. And so to me, when someone brings up this predetermination, it's an excuse not to do it. It's not an actual rational like, oh, this is This is why it's not a legitimate concern. Let me let me explain that or let me take that stance. The next thing that they're really advocating here or I guess confounded by is that they're working for 20 different school districts. So different. One kid that they've been working with, an early intervention might go on, like you said, to to a school district that sort of favors their, their tier one support is TD SNAP, let's say that. And another student that they're working with would go on to be in a school district that has lamports for life. And so how do they choose what their board is in this early intervention? Well, early intervention in my mind, so I don't think it is explicitly stated here, but let me just review this a second. I currently work in our birth the three program part of the program. We provide birth to three supports, we create supports and structures primary service providers. OK, So what I know about birth to three and again, maybe they'll tell me differently because it's not explicitly in here, is that usually you're using an IFSP individualized independent family Service plan or individualized family servant Service plan. And back when I did those services back in the day, and I think this is still how they're done, is that you're often going you're you're the students aren't coming to some sort of center where they're doing something. You're going out to the individual families and working with them in their homes, either individually or as a team to support those kids in their home environment. I see you nodding along. Is that your understanding as well?

Rachel Madel
I mean, yes, that's like what I would say is generally happening with early intervention is the home based family based services.

Chris Bugaj
So then it does make sense to me that you could map where the student is going and you could have a different core board for each of the individual students based on what the tier one approach is for that school district that they might be going to. Now that said, you know, I'm a I'm a I'm a joiner, right? Like I like to connect. That's a bad that's a better word. I'm a connector, Rachel. You know that about me. I like to connect people. We have yet to do our ATIATIA 2025 debrief episode, but one of the things that I listed talk about is how many connections I made between people between Hey, oh, someone would come to me with a problem. Like, oh, you know, you need to talk to you need to talk to that person. So with that in mind, something that I would be thinking about here is who the person who wrote this, the team this early on team is what if you were the connector, the joiner of these 20 districts to say, hey, what if we had a little summit and talk about how did you choose TD snap? How did you choose lamp for use? The for you districts that haven't chose anything, how are you going to choose something? And is there a way to connect us all to consider maybe aligning in some way if you're not too far down this road, maybe there are reasons to move to something else, you know, so that regionally we have a, a similar approach, right? So that if kids and I don't know how in my neck of the woods, especially now Northern Virginia, there's a lot of transient people, meaning they their jobs are are changing and moving and they're moving in and out of the country. So I don't are in and out of the state or anything in and out of the area in Michigan, maybe it's not that case, but but perhaps there is where people are moving from district to district or boundaries are changing or whatever. So having a more regional, unified approach might not be a bad thing if you think you could bring people together that way. What are your thoughts on that?

Rachel Madel
I mean, yes, because as soon as I saw the way that it was worded in this question was some of our three to five services have systems they quote prefer such as TD Sapper lamp. So it sounds like we're and I don't think this is uncommon, right? I think that it's just like regionally within districts, there's like one that comes one or two that come out the wash more often, right. And so I think aligning and trying to be the person that drives the collaboration and the decision making process. I mean, imagine the ripple effect and the impact that could have if you chose instead of having two, that they prefer having one. And again, like this is not necessarily for all the students, but it's for the most students it's for starting place because that continuity of care between birth to 3:00 and 3:00 to 5:00 and then, you know, even further down the road, having that continuity is obviously best case scenario. And I think that we, you know, figuring out the right people to connect with in this type of scenario feels really important. And, you know, the person that asks this question might be thinking, wow, this seems like a lot of work and I don't really know where to go from here. But it's like sometimes it doesn't actually take as much work as you think it might if you find the right person. And so I generally think regardless if you were trying to help, you know, a region, pick a, you know, AAC system to focus on, regardless of that, making the right connections and collaborations within a community just help support your students overall, right? It like it. There's, there's only benefits to making connections and building and establishing relationships with, you know, other people in your sphere. And so it's not time wasted at all. And I've always found in my own clinical work, if I take that little bit of extra time, I go a little bit more then like I want to or I feel like I have time for like it. The ripple effect of that can be really impactful. And I've never found like seeking out connections as hurting me in any way. It only helps me.

Chris Bugaj
Yeah, right. It it helps everybody. Like I just love how you ended that, Rachel, is that yes, yes, I'm putting good into the world, but it also comes back on me as as an awesome thing that I've done and for for myself. Right. So I see all signs here point to yes, choose choose a core board that's line up with where the student is is going and see if you can be a connector to bring people together. Reject the idea that considering a visual support like this is predetermination of any of any kind and and and rock'n'roll with it.

Rachel Madel
Absolutely, Chris, and I also just want to add one more thing to that, which is it actually helps the people if our kid, the kids that they're have coming in already have established and familiarity with an AAC system, right? It's like it really does help everybody not having to start from Ground Zero. And so that's kind of the sell if you're thinking about it through like, what can you say, how can I get people on board? It's like, let's make all of our lives a little bit easier. Everyone, like it doesn't have to be this hard. AAC is already hard enough like getting everybody to model, learning about core words. It's like all the things we have to do. If we have some familiarity around a specific system, then we can go so much further because we're focusing all of our energy on the actual implementation and we're not kind of having these battles around like what system? And this system's better than this system. And I just think that it really is a win win. So definitely reminding this person who asked the question, you know, it's really such a great thing to think through this lens. And I feel like the way I see it too is just like, I find that whenever I'm kind of stuck in a problem, like how do I zoom out? And like, I feel like right here we're zooming out and being like big picture thinking, like what types of things could we do? And I feel like this person's already thinking through that lens of like, wait a second, like we have our own, but then like they go do this thing and they're already seeing kind of the incongruencies there. And so I just want to commend the person that reached out because you're already in the right, you're already right on the right path, you're already thinking through the right lenses here. So hopefully this this little banter just pushed you in the direction that you needed to give you the the encouragement.

Chris Bugaj
Sorry, Rachel, there's one other thing we have to say, and I cannot believe you and I have not said it yet. And as just as you were talking, I was thinking, yes, and there's this other thing too. Just because it's zero to three doesn't mean it equals a core board, right? You could have a high tech device in this early on program as well, right? There's no reason to wait for voice output until they get to the school district. So yes, if you have the core board right now and you could start using the screenshot of TBTD, SNAP or Lampards for Life, great, do that, But don't stop there for your own. You could be working to find funding for devices, high tech devices right now.

Rachel Madel
Yes, I actually thought about that as you were talking earlier and I was like, I have to say that. And then I didn't write it down. And I'm like, thank God Chris remembered to say that because yes. And like again, if we're thinking through the lens of early intervention, you know, we can't expect a 2 year old to be accurate with AAC. But what we can expect is to help students start initiating communication using a ACI find that touching and a voice output system is a lot more engaging and promotes a lot more initiation in in children, especially younger children. And so don't be afraid to start with high tech. And it doesn't have to be like we, we graduate from paper based AAC to high tech AAC. We can accomplish all of these goals simultaneously.

Chris Bugaj
And one last thing I got to say, early intervention is focused on teaching the family, right? And then for some reason, when the kids get to school, that sort of drops off. We don't teach the family anymore. So there's a huge opportunity to empower parents with the knowledge and skills from an early age about how to model language and how to have fun with fun experiences where you're just sort of in the moment, right? And then advocates when they go on to school saying, look, we've already put lots of drops in buckets. Now you just continue on, right? As opposed to, I don't know, we haven't started anywhere. We, we had some random core board and now we got to take that away and we're trying with something new. You could really take 10 steps forward in in this early on program with these some some of these simple changes by empowering parents.

Rachel Madel
I love it, Chris. That's what I do most of my day is empower parents. And so I love that you're mentioning that because it really is one of the best ways to see progress over time is to really make the make the time to train the circle of support around a child. And the parents usually feel very overwhelmed, but are also very eager to practice and learn. And it's just a great opportunity that you don't always get when kids start going to school and you don't have as easy access to parents.

Chris Bugaj
So here we have Christina Schmidt coming up for the interview and I have a quick story to share with you, Rachel. So at the beginning of the school year, our school, our Office of Special education came up with a theme. It was or at your service. And the team that I work with made a little video that sort of goes along with it in the, the trend at the time was I'm a speech therapist. Of course I write, I'm a boat ever. I'm a runner, of course I do you remember that trend back in the day, right? Of course, I'm nothing but trendy. So our team wrote a bunch of different lines and then each person sort of we recorded a little video where they said those lines in that. And then at the end we're, it's a big reveal. We're all there and we're like, we're the assistant technology team and we're at your service, right? Of course, we're at your service or something like that. Anyway, the final shot of this video, we needed somebody to hold the camera, right? We didn't have a, a tripod. We we just needed somebody to hold our phone real quick and take a, you know, what turned out to be, I don't know, a 10 second, 15 second video. So I ran over to somebody else that works in the building and I grabbed this, this person and I said, Hey, can I borrow you for a minute as you do, right? I mean, you've, you've been around where you said, Hey, can you take our picture or something like that, that, that, that sort of thing. And so this particular person kind of looked a little shy about it and a little hesitant. And I got the impression that maybe this person felt like they were going to get in trouble for leaving their work and come do this other thing. And if they're like, boss came in, they'd be like, where is this person at their desk, you know, and they're off messing around with, with the, the assistant technology team, right? So that's what I thought why this person was being hesitant. OK, Fast forward months later, I didn't think much over it. Thank you so much for taking this video. I let it go and the school year goes on. Fast forward to a few weeks ago, Narayanan came to visit us from Avaz right after Atia before going back to India. He came to do a a presentation and learn from us and us learn from him. And so he was there and at the end of this presentation, he said, he said, hey, can we get a quick photo together? And I was like, yes, but again, no tripod. No, you know, where there's a team of 10 plus him as 11 people trying to do a selfie. You know, I'm not Bradley Cooper, right at the at the Oscars, if you if you understand that reference, right. So we couldn't get everybody in the picture. So we needed somebody. So I went over and went to the same person that I work with and I said, Hey, remember how you did that video last time? Could you take a picture of us? And the same reaction, sort of this hesitant, reluctant, yes, OK, put out sort of look on this person's face. And again, I was like, jeez, they must really be afraid that their boss is going to come down on them. I had the same reaction, but the person came, took the picture, you know, took three quick snaps and said, there you go, Chris. And went back again. If they were away from the desk less than a minute. It was that's that's that's high, right? Anyway, a few minutes later, I go back in there just to say thank you. And this person says, hey, Chris, I've known you for a while. I think you should know. Here's why I'm hesitant to take videos and take a picture. My religion prevents me from taking pictures of women. And I was like, oh, my goodness, I am so sorry. I didn't know. I had no idea that I was putting you in the position of that you were feel uncomfortable. And like, do I say yes to Chris? Because I know this guy and I work with him and I want to help him. But also my religion would frown on me taking these images. And I just unknowingly stumbled into a place where I was not being culturally responsive or respectful. I mean, I didn't know at the time. And of course, I apologize profusely, and I'll never put him, that person, in that position again. But it's just a moment of learning, you know, where again, I made a mistake trying to do the best we can and then learning that I should not necessarily have made the presumption that that he or this person was going to get into trouble. But maybe there was something else. And I could have just asked like, hey, why do you feel uncomfortable? Right. So just a growth moment for me. And really, I thought it might lead us into this conversation that you're about to have and that we're all going to listen to with Christina Schmidt.

Rachel Madel
Chris, I had the absolute pleasure of interviewing Christina Schmidt. Christine and I talk all about culturally responsive practices. And Christine is actually from the US but based right now in Australia. And we had just a really amazing discussion around how do we support families of diverse backgrounds and cultures thinking through the lens of AAC, thinking through dialect of differences. And I just, I'm really excited for this episode. She also has this really amazing cultural competency checklist. So we're going to link that in the show notes for sure, just because it's definitely an area of our field that we really have to be considerate of. And I feel like Christina does an amazing job of really laying out the things to consider. And I really love this checklist. I like immediately downloaded it and I was like, I love this. So definitely want to share that. And super excited to share the interview that I did with Christina Schmidt.

Chris Bugaj
If you enjoy talking with Tech, we could use your help in spreading the word about the podcast. Please take a moment to leave us a review on iTunes. The more positive reviews the podcast gets, the easier it becomes for others to find it. The more people who find the podcast, the more the word spreads about how to effectively consider and implement AAC. And who doesn't want that? If that sounds good to you, please take a moment and give the podcast a quick review. We'd so very much appreciate it. Now let's get back into the episode.

Rachel Madel
Welcome to Talking with Tech. I'm your host, Rachel Maddow, joined today by Christina Schmidt. Christina, I'm so excited to have you here.

Christina Schmidt
Thanks Rachel. I'm so excited to be here. I know this has been months in the making and here we are together. So thank you so much for having me.

Rachel Madel
Yes, I'm really excited. This has been a lot of back and forth trying to schedule because you're in Australia, which just means our time zones are not in our favor. So I'm really excited to chat with you today. Just start off by giving our listeners a little bit of background around who you are and what you do.

Christina Schmidt
Of course. So yes, my name is Christina. The pronouns that I use are she, her and hers. And I'm a black multicultural woman and multi dialectal woman. I'm also autistic and I'm an ADHD. Uh, things that I'm really passionate about in my advocacy are around race and racial, cultural and disability advocacy. And I was born and raised in the US, so hence my accent. I still have an American accent and I moved over to Australia about nearly 11 years ago now. So I spent the majority of my life living overseas, both in Australia and Austria. And I'm currently living and where I work and create and do all of those great things in life in Narm, which is the Indigenous name for Melbourne and that's in Victoria in Australia. And when it comes to my speech therapy deep interests, they include all about neurodivergence, in particular autism and ADHD, because I have living and lived experience in those inclusivity, disability, racial, cultural justice, intersectionality, AAC, gestalt, language processing, social emotional learning, regulation, interception, and also universal design. So a little bit of everything really. I just like to dip my toes in lots of different water and yeah, know lots of things.

Rachel Madel
Amazing. Well, I'm really excited. We're going to have a really amazing conversation around cultural competency, which I think is an area of our field that many people feel a little overwhelmed by, sometimes daunted by. And I think unfortunately the byproduct of that is that they just avoid. They're like, well, I don't really know. So like, I don't want to do anything. And you know, I'm hoping that today's podcast we can give really clear steps for people who are listening moving forward. So they're really thinking through this lens of cultural competency. It's now, you know, for Asha, the American Speech and Hearing Association, we're now, you know, required to get some continuing education in that area. And so it's something that we really all need to be thinking about, especially when we're working with families through the lens of AAC. Because you know, oftentimes we are the ones that are responsible for the programming and, you know, making sure that we include all these really important, we, we think through this lens when we're, we're thinking through programming for AAC. And so, you know, let's just start off by talking having you talk about the importance of cultural competency and dialect when we're thinking about AAC.

Christina Schmidt
Yeah, firstly, I'd like to cuz bringing it back to why am I here? How did this come about? I think it was last year, Rachel, where you sent out an e-mail to those that were on your, your newsletter, your E newsletter, and you used a meme that featured a black woman. And I think there was African American English that was used in, in the meme. And you replied to it, to everyone to say, you know, whoops, that was my mistake. That was something that I've caught myself on or someone else has, you know, a few people have pointed out and I'd just like to acknowledge that that wasn't OK. And, you know, that is cultural appropriation and I'm going to do better about it. And I, and I thought, wow, that was something that I saw and I knew, but I didn't have the spoons. I didn't have the energy to reply back and go into why it was, it was inappropriate, but I did have the energy to go. Thanks so much, Rachel. Thanks for your accountability in doing that. I really appreciate it. And that then started our e-mail back and forth and you said, you know what? This is something that is missed so often and in our field, but even outside of our our field of speech pathology, and it's something that does need to be properly addressed. So that is what led us here today. And often times I know that it can be scary when there are things that we face that are, are unknown to us. And when we're thinking about specifically speech pathology as a profession, the profession as a whole, the majority culture and the majority of speech pathologists are white. And The thing is like all of us as speech pathologist, including myself, as you know, a black woman and you know, I, I come with culture like African American, Australian now. And I also support people from many different cultures. So all of us, when we're coming into working with the people that that we're supporting and, and the AAC providing them the alternative ways of being able to communicate that they absolutely have the right to, we are helping people that that come from different cultures. And what we're bringing into it are our own internal biases. And they are biases that we don't always necessarily think about all the time, but we might have a cultural bias where we might be viewing certain communication styles that are different from what's marked as the standard, what's considered as the standard. And we might have a way of, yeah, considering that it it's not as good or it's not as as, yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not to a standard. But I think that's the thing that we need to address. You know, why is that happening? And I say that because when we're thinking about African American English, it still does get held too standard American English. And the issue with that is it's seen as people that use the dialect, which, you know, it's rich in culture, it's rich in history. They're seen as uneducated. They're seen as they're not as good as the majority culture that is wanting, that's holding, you know, these standards. So it's really addressing the implicit bias that we come with, the internal bias, and working, working towards that to be able to enhance cultural competencies. So we're really supporting the people that we're working with, the lives that we're impacting, and actually doing that, you know, authentically and fully and honoring them and upholding them.

Rachel Madel
Yeah, I mean, I, I completely hear you. And I think again, it just circling back to kind of what I shared in the beginning, it just feels like people because they don't know and it feels like a sensitive topic and I don't know exactly how to do this. So for those people who are like I, I, I, I'm on board, but like, how do I actually implement this? Like what types of strategies or suggestions would you make? Again, think you through the lens of AAC, This is the AAC podcast. But like when you're first working with a family like, what does that look like in practice?

Christina Schmidt
Yeah. Well, I think once it's acknowledging that you have your own implicit biases and and that's that's your own responsibility to take care of in the back end the background, right. But when you're with a family, it's knowing that they are the experts, they are leading the way. They're they're driving the car, right? You know, you're, you're there to support and to guide them. So they're going to be the ones that can tell you about their culture. And it's for us to create that safe environment and letting them know that we want to be respectful. You know, we are, we want to be able to know to help them and by being respectful, you know, it's I want to, I want to, you know, I'm really open to learning about your culture. Can you tell me more about it? And having specific questions around, you know, that goes beyond just, you know, what language do you speak? But, you know, when I come into your home, what are some things that you know that you prefer that I do, you know, would, would you like me to take my shoes off when it comes to learning about the maybe a dialect that they use, especially I'll, I'll keep with African American dial English dialects at AAE. Yeah, asking them questions around, you know, if like if you want to think about like AAC specifically. Yeah, like asking them about about their culture, asking them about the the terms, the terminology that they use so that they're able to then leave that for you. So they're, you know, you're helping them and you're guiding them, but they're the ones that are considered the experts and we're just there to be led and understand what they're what they're needing.

Rachel Madel
Yeah. I mean, I think it all starts with, like you said, creating a safe space for that because I think that sometimes families can have their own fears around judgment or, you know, and I've also worked with families that are very quick to kind of abandon their own culture for whatever it is that, you know, is more mainstream or feels more culturally accepted. You know, especially if we're thinking about bilingual families. I can't tell you how many times I've been, you know, working with a family who's bilingual and they're like, no, no, just English. And I'm like, but you're, you're actually bilingual. So like, we don't have to be just English. Like these systems are set up so amazingly that we can toggle between languages and if we select the right AAC system, like we can support both languages. So, you know, what would you say when you're working with a family who you know isn't giving you a lot of information out of potential fear or just trying to kind of not rock the boat? Like, because I've definitely been in that situation too. And it's like, I think 1 is creating the safe space. But is there anything else that you would share as potential strategies for when you find yourself in a situation like that?

Christina Schmidt
Yeah, you know, and I, I say the things, you know, I say, I say those things. And sometimes it's not going in right away and just asking 1,000,001 questions. It might, you know, when it comes to building that rapport, you're building that trust with the family. You're, or even if it's just the one person, if it's an, if it's an adult, you're wanting to build that trust. And because people that are more marginalized in our society, they have a fear that has a very valid fear that has come from not being believed or being expected to only speak English. That's where that's coming from. So it might be more a matter of overtime that this information is, is gathered. It might be a bit more subtle. It might be also if there are other people on the the care team checking in with them and then checking in with the family. It might not be immediate that you have your questionnaire you or it's in the initial consultation. It might be through observation and it might just be over time that this happens, but knowing full well that it's important to be able to gather the information that you need.

Rachel Madel
Totally.

Christina Schmidt
It just might be done a bit a bit a bit just slow and that's OK, slower.

Rachel Madel
Yeah, yeah. I love that you're sharing this. I mean, I think it's so true. We can't rush and build rapport, right? We can't rush and build trust. It's something that establishes over time. And I just had an aha moment because I think about this lens often in the initial stages when I meet a family and I'm setting up AAC or I'm doing an AAC assessment and I'm programming. And there are touch points where, you know, like you said, I might observe something or notice something. But I think clinically for me, as you were just talking, I was like, I feel like I actually need to kind of like for my own self schedule in just like a moment of reflection and a touch point. Because so often we can kind of just like barrel through and we're like, well, we know this family and we set it up the device and we did all these things. And it's like, it really should be an ongoing process. And the more you build trust and rapport with a family, the more they feel safe enough to share all the things. And so I just had like this aha moment as you were talking. And I'm like, this is something that I need to kind of keep myself on top of clinically, just making sure that I'm checking in and I'm, you know, really thinking through that lens of cultural competency. And it does feel like like something that is should be an ongoing thing. And again, like, my brain like focuses on the initials because I'm like, OK, initially, but really it should be ongoing.

Christina Schmidt
Yeah, I think so often we we feel rushed. We feel like we have to have all of the answers, just like the people that we support sometimes. I know certainly for me, I've, I've started with families or even throughout our journey together and they're just wanting, you know, just give me something, just give me the exercises to work on and I will do that. Or just give me some articles to read or some books or something that people, you know, we want to have that quick fix because we're just, we're wanting to help or wanting to do better by the person that we're supporting. And it is OK to just take a pause, take a moment to reflect, you know, write it down or do a voice recording or something to kind of go, where am I right now at right now? What am I needing to do to support this family? Because sometimes it's not always about me. I need to take it back to the family or the individual that I'm supporting. And, you know, I just want to clarify, you know, what do we first do? And I'm, you know, saying, well, yes, there are questions that we can ask and include in our initial consultation, but they may not always be so appropriate. And that's why the first thing I mentioned is we first have to address our own implicit biases. We're not, you know, otherwise we're not really able to more fully support the people that are needing our help. So yes, it is OK to go about things slowly. Rapport is built, built. You know, it's a continual ongoing process. So that's that's really OK. It is OK to slow it down, slow it down and go about it at a pace that is going to honor where that person or where that family is at.

Rachel Madel
Yeah. And I like that you're kind of sharing. It really is a two-part process, meaning like, sure, you can go in and ask all of the questions around, you, know, culture and dialect and all those things, But if you're not also simultaneously doing your own work in really, you know, acknowledging and recognizing your own implicit biases, then you're really not doing this full circle. Yeah.

Christina Schmidt
You're not really doing it the justice that it deserves. And I do have a free resource available with like a checklist with some some jumping off points to, to start to address. OK, Like it's a cultural competency, competency check and looking into your own implicit biases. That's really the starting point, though. It's about that, you know, internal work first before we can help others. It's putting that oxygen mask on yourself first before you can help those around you. So yeah, I can't, I can't emphasize that part enough.

Rachel Madel
I definitely will link to that resource in the show notes so that people who are listening can access it. Are there any other resources that you feel like a really good launching off points for people who might be listening who are like, yes I'm on board but like where do I even begin when I'm thinking about?

Christina Schmidt
In that resource, in that resource I've I've included, yeah, several and not in an overwhelming way, but as just, you know, just to get either get you started. Maybe you already have and you're still kind of like that resource is, is what I would recommend because I've collated. Yeah, some other. Yeah, I've done the, I've done the work of collating. So I haven't actually, you know, built anything or designed a course or anything. I'm leading people to the resources that are already made.

Rachel Madel
Amazing. I love that. I'm super excited to check out this resource for myself and also all of our listeners. I would really encourage you guys to check it out too. So when we're thinking about some, because we're kind of talking high level here, let's get more granular in the scheme of AAC like What are the things that a clinician really needs to think about when we are supporting families. Obviously language is a big one. We think about that, it's natural. But what are the ones that maybe go unnoticed or, you know, some clinicians might overlook? What are things that you feel like are important for listeners to kind of really understand that maybe aren't as obvious?

Christina Schmidt
So things that won't be as obvious are nuances that are going to be in, you know, we're thinking about different cultures and dialects. So we when it's when it comes to the things that aren't going to be blatantly obvious. Blatantly clear. Yeah, it would it would definitely be the nuances that are a part of dialect. So with AAE knowing that the looking up the definition of A of a word in AE, like for example, the term shade, it's not just simply an insult, you know, throwing shade at someone or like, oh, that was a lot, you know, that was some shade. It's not just that an insult, it's, it's a subtle but artful way of critiquing someone indirectly. And it's often used in a playful or, or witty manner. So, yeah, you know, to look up the definition and just go, OK, well, yeah, well, that means insult. And to program that into AAC and kind of go, Oh yeah, all right, take. It's so much more than that. If you're a person that doesn't speak the dialect, you know, please, it's it's about making sure that you are supporting a communication partner that does speak that dialect. So that person that you're helping with their AAC has someone that knows how to use our AAC and the dialect that you're putting in there, you know, the terms that you're putting in there. So they really have that full cultural recognition that, that immersion that it really requires the context, you know, and I, and I say that because I've seen that so often, you know, these, these things, well, you know, AAE it gets picked up and it gets turned almost into it gets like really trendy. And I've seen on social media like Facebook, and it's like it will be turned or be coined as millennial slang or as Gen. Z, Gen. Z slang. And I'm like, Oh, as someone you know from that, that culture that speaks with that dialect, it's really harmful. It's really hurtful to see that it's just commodified that it's put down assembly as like, well, this is what this means. The students in your class, this is what they mean by that. Well, sure. But what about the rich, the rich history that that comes behind it and why it's come to be what it is today? So I think that's a big one is, is if you know, if it's something it's not, if it's not something that you say yourself, if it's not a part of a dialect that you use yourself, it's really knowing that who are the communication partners that are surrounding this person that I'm supporting and providing that that coaching to them. You know that that training, that support for them. So that person that you've program AAC 4 isn't left just with like, OK, well this is it's great that you've recognized that. Thanks for putting it in there. But I want to make sure that those around me, you know, I can use it with them and they know how to as well.

Rachel Madel
Yeah, no, it's such a good point because a word, especially, you know, within a certain dialect has so much more meaning. And as communication partners, we need to know how to model that word or phrase, you know, and then also support the communication partners around an individual. And it becomes really important to understand the history because then we understand the appropriate context in which to utilize it because it is nuanced. It's not, I feel like everything becomes so kind of like black or white and everything is more Gray. And so it sounds like what you're saying is just like making sure that you understand where it came from. And then, of course, when we're thinking about language, you know, we program words or phrases into an AAC system and then we need to teach often times, and sometimes more explicitly than just modeling, we need to teach how to use it. And so that's really on us. And what I love about what you're saying here, and I think it, it really, it really shows and showcases one of the important reasons why we would want to do more coaching than just kind of like explaining or training or consulting work, right? It's like because if you know I'm thinking about a word or phrase that is not from my own dialect, then I need to ask the right questions to a communication partner in order to both understand how it's used, but also in what context we can model it. Because if it's not in my own dialect, I won't totally understand its meaning, perhaps. And then more importantly, I won't understand the context in which I can show an individual how to utilize it. And so I think it's really great that you're kind of sharing this because I think it also just kind of nods to the importance of coaching and asking the right questions to communication partners to really empower them to support AAC?

Christina Schmidt
Questions asking the right questions, certainly, because when it comes to asking questions, sometimes there are questions that that mean that there's going to be a lot of emotional labour that comes behind it or expected like, you know, like that free labour. So it's being really mindful about the types of questions that are asked. And again, that's, you know, whoever you as a person, if you're the one that's, that's doing the coaching, if you're the coach, you know, that's why, again, going back to really knowing and, and brushing up on your cultural competency so that you're not putting that person that you're, you're asking questions in that position. Because there's a lot of when it comes like AAE and, and other dialects, I'm focusing on AAE because that's something that, you know, I have the most knowledge in and I speak myself. It has so much cultural and historical weight. And you know, I see it as it's, it's a dialectal variation. It's a cultural variation. It is an art form. It's like having the most expansive canvas ever and having so many beautiful shades and colors and like, it's just glowing and, you know, this is an art piece. Think of it as, you know, it is, it's art. It is art the way that it's spoken, that it's expressed, that it's understood, you know, that's the sort of weight that and value that that it needs to to have and that we need to uphold. You know, that's the importance of knowing, you know this, you know, and it's say if you have a client and you know, maybe within their friend group, at their a specific friend group at school, they use a when they go home. Like especially if you're, if you're a speech language pathologist and you work in schools, when they go on home or home, they very well are using majority of the time AAE that might be the case, but in the classroom when they're being taught, it won't be. So it's just knowing about, OK, you know what, I need to have these, these terms programmed in their AAC too, because this is a part of their identity. This is a part of who they are, the important people in their lives. You know, they're surrounded by it. So we want them to be able to have just, you know, they're right. They have just as much, you know, it's just as important for them to be able to, to express themselves in that way too, in that beautiful way as well.

Rachel Madel
Yeah, I love that say we have a listener who is listening to this and it's like, man, like I haven't done my due diligence in this area and I feel overwhelmed. Is there, you know, and and I already have an established relationship, say with a family. Is there a way that you would suggest kind of broaching that conversation, 'cause I could see a therapist being like, I should have already done this. I didn't actually do it. And now it feels a little uncomfortable, a little more uncomfortable because it's kind of like one. I have to admit that I should have done this in the beginning, but I didn't actually do it. But I'm just, I'm thinking of through that lens because I'm, I'm guessing there are some listeners out there thinking like, OK, I didn't do it, but now I want to do it, but how do I have that conversation? So do you have any kind of strategies for that type of scenario for our listeners who are now invested in doing kind of this, this, this thinking through this lens?

Christina Schmidt
Yeah, and thank you. Thank you. If you've just said Yep, that's me. Thank you for listening. You're taking an amazing step towards being able to improve, you know, improve yourself and, and those that you support. You know, I think of it's not the full, the full quote, but it gets often shortened to it's Maya Angelou's quote like no better, do better. And I like to add on to it and ask how, like, how are you going to do better? There are times that as we're learning to do better, it will be uncomfortable. And, you know, it's kind of asking is the internal reflection, you know, as speech language pathologists, what we're doing. We were constantly, you know, the continued education, that ongoing education, the professional development, this is what it is. There needs to be a lot of reflection involved and knowing that you're not alone in this, right? We, we have the support around us, right? We have our community of other speech language pathologists around us. We Yeah. So, you know, if it does feel a bit uncomfortable, if it does feel overwhelming, you know, please do make sure you, you know, take your deep breaths if that's what helps you, or do your other sensory self soothers, you know, get yourself regulated, get yourself where you need to be. And then then when you're ready, asking yourself, OK, well, how can I, how can I do better? And, and, and knowing that you don't need to tackle it all at once. It, it comes back to what was mentioned before these things, it can be one step at a time. You know, if you want to like quantify, it can be small steps, because small steps do lead to bigger steps. So you know where making that goal achievable for yourself. Where do you feel like you can start today, right, If you want to, if you want to make that change and you want to make yourself accountable, what's that little goal you could do today? Is it, is it downloading the resource that I've mentioned? Because I've put it out there for a reason. I've put it out there, you know, it's my way of, you know, resting as resistance. You know, I put the work in to create it so I can then sit back and rest and then let it, you know, spread and get shared and used. So it's there to use that's going to help you starting your journey or if you already started, you know, looking to see where else where to next. What can I look into next?

Rachel Madel
I love that. I love that. I'm also thinking as we're kind of talking here, I so this idea of things feeling uncomfortable and overwhelming, I feel like that's where growth happens. And so I just want to encourage our listeners like if you feel a little uncomfortable, like it means you're doing it right. And so I think just kind of becoming OK with that process and my own kind of strategy for these, you know, scenarios, which you mentioned at the beginning of this podcast. One of them was like, I had to send an e-mail to our my e-mail list of 30,000 speech therapist say like, yeah, I made a mistake. And, and I think just, you know, I found that just being genuine and just being honest and admitting that you're learning even reference this podcast. Like I was listening to a podcast on, you know, cultural competency for AAC and it got me thinking like, you know, I should have asked these questions when we first met. And, you know, I'm trying to do better. Like, let's have a conversation. Like, I think it can be as simple as that. I think that most people are really open and willing. And when you show that you really are trying, and when you admit that you don't know it all and you're really open to learning, I just think that that really goes a long way in against building and fostering those relationships.

Christina Schmidt
It's appreciated. And even as a part of that, you know, there's that feeling of discomfort or is that that feeling of overwhelmed and, you know, allowing yourself grace and get in and removing from your vocabulary. I should and I should not. It's just, you know, what am I going to do? What do I, what do I need to do? That's what I'm going to do. So it's OK if you already have an established working relationship with a client or a client's family. It's OK if you didn't do that at the start because we are not perfect. We are allowed to make mistakes. It's how we rectify. It's how we hold ourselves accountable. That's a part of being culturally responsive. So you can start anywhere, anywhere that you're at with that, with, with, you know, the working relationship that you have with someone that you support. It's OK to go, you know. I'm wanting to, I really, I'm, I'm open to learning more about your culture because I know that, you know, this is important to you. Just start there. Don't even have to review the past, all of that. It's just looking ahead. Where are you at presently? Again, oftentimes it's like we're rushing. We're rushing. We feel like I have to have all the answers and we're hardly ever sometimes, sometimes we're not always in the present. I'll speak for myself, you know, I have to like reel myself in, you know, constantly doing my regulation strategies to try to stay present. So that's that would be my advice really.

Rachel Madel
Yeah, I love that. It's good. It's good life advice too. I think I'm also on that pursuit of trying to make sure I'm in the present moment and staying regulated because it's like we're living in a crazy world where like lots of things can kind of happen and just regulate us and take us out of the present moment. I want to, I want to shift and we've been thinking through the, the lens of SLPS and educators that are listening. I want to shift and think through the lens of parents because we often times have a lot of parents that listen. So you know, what if you're a parent who is listening to this conversation, thinking, I wish my SLP would, you know, ask me about my culture. I want to include all of these things on my child's AAC system kind of thinking through the other lens. Any advice that you could share for a parent or a family who's listening, who, you know, really wants to encourage that and, you know, really think through that lens of, you know, cultural competence and their dialect and making sure that, you know, their child has access to that.

Christina Schmidt
Valid, valid and appreciate parents cares that are listening as well. I think firstly, you know, if you are someone, if you're a parent or a carer and you are from a more marginalized group and the person that's supporting you or your child is not, I think it's always comes from the perspective, you know, well, is that person a safe person to be able to support you in that area? You know, are they, are they going to be, you know, safe and understanding and, and wanting and, and able to take that on? I think that's the first step, You know, similar to on the other side of things, when you know, someone comes into your home and you know, you have very valid fears and, and, and even trauma being told or expected to not speak in your dialect, you know, and that might go back to when you were in school, you know, don't use that. It's not proper, that sort of thing. So, you know, is this, is this a safe person? You know, have they have they shown that to you? And, and other aspects of the yeah, the, the relationship that you have with them thus far? And if you feel like, Yep, they are, you know, just going, you know, I'd love to, I'd love to be able to, you know, program or include this in the AC that, you know, I'm using or my child is using, you know, can you show me how to do that? Can we do that together? You know, and, and just seeing what their response is to that and, and whether or not, you know, if it feels like it's going to be a lot of work for you to do and almost too much work, Yeah, I think continuing to to see like how, how else they can support you. But if not, you know, looking into whether or not there is someone else that can help advocate that for you. And I know that's not always easy, but it is about having that community, that community and support, you know, again, and none of us need to be on our own when it comes into this. You know, I think a lot of times in society it comes down to like independence and individualistic. And we have to do it ourselves, otherwise we're not going to get ahead. So it is, it is really, you know, that that communal support that's needed. Yeah.

Rachel Madel
Yeah, I love that. And I'd also encourage parents or caregivers who are listening to really, I, I think that sometimes there can be a hesitation like, well, I don't know. And the SOP is responsible for the AAC. And it's almost like, you know, parents can feel like, well, I don't, I can't touch that. That's like not mine to touch. And I just want to like encourage families to know that like your child's voice is, you know, you ultimately you're the quarterback of this team. Like your speech therapist will change, your educators change, everything will change. And so, you know, learning and empowering yourself by asking questions like you mentioned, Christina, like, can you show me how to do that? Like, can you show me how to program a phrase or a button, right? Like, can you show me, you know, these these things and, you know, often times, you know, speech therapist and SLPS that are working in the space, they would love to show you how to program things. And I, I think that, you know, even if you don't necessarily feel safe to have those conversations, you can still take more ownership over that AAC system in supporting, you know, your child the way that you know, you think is best and also to support, you know, their full identity. Because if we're not including, you know, specific dialect and, and, and really important facets of someone's culture, then we're really not helping to support the individual and their truest, most genuine identity. And so it's, it's so important.

Christina Schmidt
Yeah. And it's a collaborative effort. So it it really, it needs to have that balance to it. And sometimes that balance might be, you know, the speech pathologist taking on more of that work. And if they're not able to, bringing in someone else to help support it never should be like unbalanced. And, you know, majority of that work is, is one of the parties involved, right? If it's needing to involve an additional person or two additional people, then that's OK. And so be it. You know, if that person may not be the best person, that speech pathologist may not be the best person. You know, it, it likely has come time to look for someone else because that's, you know, that's OK. I, I say, I say to people, I may not be the best speech pathologist for you, and I accept that that's OK. I have my limitations and that's OK. So yeah, it's just, yeah, I think collaborative. Collaborative, you know, it is very much a team approach. If you as a parent or a carer, if you like, you know, you have a lot on your plate and very likely. So, you know, if you feel comfortable to expressing that, you know, the speech pathologist so that they understand because I just never wanted to feel like, yeah, the burdens on the parents. There's always so much that parents and carers advocate for and, you know, end up care burnout exhausted. So I want to really acknowledge that. Yeah. Yeah. So it is a very much a collaborative. It is a team group effort, yeah.

Rachel Madel
I love it. You're speaking my love language because I'm all about collaboration. And I just think if all of us collaborated more on the teams that we were on, everything would be so much better. Like it's just like.

Christina Schmidt
It's reality is it doesn't. Yeah, reality is it doesn't always work out that way, but it still is. If you need the support, that is OK, and there's nothing wrong with getting the support that you need.

Rachel Madel
Totally.

Christina Schmidt
On both ends, right?

Rachel Madel
Yes, exactly. And I think that like the more you give context, it's like I think sometimes we're afraid to share. We're afraid to share when we feel overwhelmed, we're afraid to share, you know those things and it just gives context. If you're not doing something, it's like having the understanding of oh, well, that parent just share that they're super overwhelmed. So that's, that's why I'm not seeing that thing happen, right? It's like it just gives so much more context and it does take, you know, some courage to share a little more vulnerably. But I do think it can make a huge difference in just giving context to what you feel like you're capable of and, you know, in that given moment of time and what you're not and just kind of being really open about that I think can be really.

Christina Schmidt
Really holistic, You know, if there are things that you're seeing that you like, it just doesn't seem like, you know, they're able to follow through with this. Well, take it back to that person is a person what might be going on for them right now and checking in with them there, Yeah.

Rachel Madel
I love it. Yes, Christina, you're doing such amazing work in this field and I'm really excited that you were able to come on and share all of this, all this wisdom with us. I'm so happy that you reached out to me via e-mail after I sent.

Christina Schmidt
Oh thank you, me too. I'm glad that it happened.

Rachel Madel
Yeah, it's, it's great. I have to say, just anecdotally, I was really nervous when all of that went down and I was like, but I just need to own it and just need to send this e-mail. And so many amazing things have come from that. What I would have virtually been like, what a mistake. Oh my gosh, I can't believe that happened. It's just like so many beautiful things have blossomed from that. So much learning, so much growth and so many connections with people like you. And so I'm really, it was quite a blessing actually, that all of that.

Christina Schmidt
Happened. Thank you for being vulnerable. I think that, yeah, that shows people, you know, how how how to do it and what it's like, you know, it's not all, you know, like, yeah, it was fine. It's like, no, I was nervous.

Rachel Madel
I was so nervous. I I was just scared.

Christina Schmidt
Yeah, I was scared. That had to be in my feels. Yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah, valid, valid to feel that way. But you know, then look at the growth that has come from it, right? Yeah, yeah. So thank you.

Rachel Madel
Of course. So for people who are listening, who want to contact you, what's the best way to get in touch?

Christina Schmidt
Yeah, look, you can follow me on my Instagram. It's at Free to Be Me Speech. Same with Facebook and I have a website as well, Free to be me speech.com dot AU. So I'm always really happy to connect with people. It is like it's such a passion of mine brings me so much joy to support people and I love finding different resources and sharing them. Like that's just like my thing and just advocating for, you know, all of the, the diversity and in the richness in art, in language and the beauty of it and, you know, the beauty of, you know, having different brains and yeah. So yeah, reach out and be happy to to connect.

Rachel Madel
I love it and I'll definitely link to all of those in the show notes. I appreciate you coming on and sharing all of your experiences and definitely would recommend to people checking out your free resource. I'm definitely going to check it out. I'm excited to to see what it's all about. And thank you again for coming on and sharing. It was such a such a great conversation and I'm really excited to share with our audience.

Christina Schmidt
Yeah, thank you. And also I did one of my recent posts is affirmations. That was my reflection of the year because I only started for you to be me speech in May of this year and it's really blossomed. So that was my way of really going, wow, look, look, you know, look where I've been personally like my growth and for you to be me speeches growth and my clients as well. So I'd love it for people to find one that resonates with them and sharing it and just getting them, you know, spreading them, spreading it around. I'd love to see that.

Rachel Madel
I love it. I love it. Christina, thank you again for coming on. It's such a great conversation and super excited for people to check out your work. For talking with Mitchell, for talking with Tech, I'm Rachel Madel, joined by Christina Schmidt. Thank you guys so much for listening and we'll talk to you next week.