Episode 355: Building an Inclusive Playground and Community
Description:
In this episode, Rachel Madel interviews Jesse and Holly Erickson, parents of Bedford, a young child with Schwartz-Jampel syndrome. They share their journey to diagnosis, what it’s like navigating a rare condition with limited research and few clear answers, and the day-to-day realities families face such as unexpected barriers in common environments.
They also describe how posts on social media gained momentum and sparked an extraordinary community response which fueled the effort to create an inclusive playground so Bedford (and other children) can play with access, dignity, and joy.
Key Ideas This Week:
Rare diagnosis journeys often come with long waits and limited roadmaps
Jesse and Holly describe the uncertainty of genetic testing timelines, specialist scheduling delays, and the emotional impact of receiving a diagnosis without clear guidance for what comes next.
Everyday accessibility barriers show up in places people don’t expect
They share how common tasks such as navigating a curb, managing playground surfaces, or buckling a car seat can become real barriers for some individuals.
Family support requires flexibility, compassion, and realistic expectations
A key reminder for educators and clinicians is that families may be juggling medical needs, therapy, fatigue, and logistics simultaneously. Support sometimes looks like listening, adapting expectations, reducing friction and not adding more to a plate that is already full. Provide support with grace.
Social media can build community, reduce isolation, and activate collective action
Holly describes how sharing Bedford’s story helped educate their community, connect with other families worldwide, and generate momentum for an inclusive playground project.
Links Mentioned In the Episode
Transcript of the Episode
Please Note: This transcript was generated using speech recognition & AI tools reviewed by a human; it may contain some grammatical and/or spelling errors.
00:00:10 Rachel
Welcome to Talking with Tech.
00:00:11 Rachel
I'm Rachel Madel, and today I'm so excited to share an interview I did with Jesse and Holly Erickson.
00:00:17 Rachel
They are the proud parents to a little boy named Bedford who has Schwartz-Jampel syndrome.
00:00:23 Rachel
And I actually found them when I was scrolling around on Instagram.
00:00:28 Rachel
And I completely fell in love with Bedford.
00:00:30 Rachel
He is such a sweet boy, and I was so impressed with the advocacy for an accessible playground.
00:00:38 Rachel
So in this interview, I am chatting with the parents all about their journey.
00:00:43 Rachel
Here is the interview I did with Jesse and Holly Erickson.
00:00:57 Rachel
Welcome to Talking with Tech.
00:00:58 Rachel
I'm your host, Rachel Madel, joined today by Jesse and Holly Erickson.
00:01:02 Rachel
I'm so excited to have you guys here.
00:01:04 Jesse
Thank you for having us.
00:01:05 Jesse
Thank you.
00:01:06 Rachel
Yeah.
00:01:07 Rachel
So can you just start off by telling our listeners a little bit about who you are?
00:01:12 Jesse
Yeah, so we're Jesse and Holly.
00:01:14 Jesse
We've been married for 12 years.
00:01:16 Jesse
We have two sons, Lincoln, who is four, and Bedford, who is three.
00:01:25 Jesse
We both are professionals in the community.
00:01:27 Jesse
We're from a small town.
00:01:28 Jesse
We're both from the same county, met in college, and really have been together ever since, almost.
00:01:37 Jesse
And we, yeah, finally decided to have kids, got two awesome and very active boys.
00:01:47 Jesse
But we found out, I guess it's been almost two years now, ago now, that Bedford has a super rare genetic disorder called Schwartz-Jampel syndrome, which set our whole family on a very new trajectory in our life.
00:02:01 Rachel
Well, that's how I found you guys.
00:02:02 Rachel
I found you on Instagram, actually.
00:02:05 Rachel
The Wonderful Life of Bedford.
00:02:07 Rachel
We're going to link to that in the show notes, but you guys are really
00:02:12 Rachel
advocating a lot to help Bedford have an inclusive playground.
00:02:17 Rachel
And I saw the Instagram and I was like, fell in love with Bedford immediately.
00:02:22 Rachel
I just was like, oh, this kid, like, I just want to like, give him a hug.
00:02:26 Rachel
And like, I wish I lived in your town.
00:02:28 Rachel
I would love like doing speech therapy with him.
00:02:31 Rachel
But I also just love your mission.
00:02:34 Rachel
And it's it is really unfortunate that it takes
00:02:38 Rachel
you know, understanding individuals with disabilities to start recognizing how inaccessible playgrounds are in lots of places, not just playgrounds, but that's how I found you guys.
00:02:50 Rachel
And so I was like really excited to have you on to talk about your experience and of course, share your project and hopefully get some people interested and, you know, donating.
00:03:01 Rachel
So we're going to go into all the details, but
00:03:03 Rachel
Before we kind of launch down that path, I just want to hear about your experience.
00:03:08 Rachel
You know, we have a lot of listeners of this podcast who are parents of children with rare incidence disabilities, a lot of practitioners and educators that listen who work with children that have rare incidence disabilities.
00:03:19 Rachel
And so tell me a little bit about kind of the journey to diagnosis.
00:03:24 Jesse
Yeah, so he seemed really normal.
00:03:28 Jesse
No indication, no
00:03:31 Jesse
nothing that was like a red flag or anything like that until he started walking.
00:03:36 Jesse
When he started walking or learning to walk, his pediatrician was like, something's not quite right.
00:03:41 Jesse
Maybe we need to send them up north and just look at, you know, getting some braces or something like that.
00:03:46 Jesse
So we went to an orthopedic Dr.
00:03:48 Jesse
up north near Chicago and she wanted to do some x-rays.
00:03:55 Jesse
And when she came in with the x-rays, like, you know, she's walking in the door and I saw her face and I was like, oh no.
00:04:01 Jesse
you can just tell something's up.
00:04:04 Jesse
And she said that, yes, she's like, something is, it's not just what I thought it might be.
00:04:10 Jesse
It's not a braces situation necessarily.
00:04:13 Jesse
I'm not sure what it is.
00:04:14 Jesse
From there, we got referred to a couple different places, but mostly, you know, the genetics testing that we needed to get so that I could even just figure out what was going on.
00:04:27 Jesse
That was a process.
00:04:28 Jesse
It took a while to get in.
00:04:30 Jesse
Took a, they had a bunch of questions.
00:04:32 Jesse
They had to ship us a thing to get DNA, just all this stuff.
00:04:35 Jesse
And then we had to wait for three or four months to three months.
00:04:40 Hollie
I think it was 3 months.
00:04:41 Hollie
We did the testing in May and we found out in August.
00:04:44 Hollie
It's 3 months.
00:04:46 Hollie
I was calling them probably every two weeks.
00:04:51 Hollie
Totally.
00:04:51 Hollie
We'll call you.
00:04:52 Hollie
But then they called me and I think I was in the drive-thru somewhere by myself, so of course.
00:04:58 Hollie
And I don't even know if I remembered the name, the diagnosis name.
00:05:02 Hollie
I just remember, I was like, okay, so what does that mean?
00:05:05 Hollie
And she's like, well, it's likely gonna impact his stature.
00:05:08 Hollie
He's likely in pain 24-7.
00:05:10 Hollie
And I think I just shut out.
00:05:12 Hollie
I didn't cry in that moment, but then when I got off the phone, I just started weeping.
00:05:17 Hollie
And obviously I was driving so I couldn't just hop on and start Googling everything.
00:05:21 Hollie
came home crying to him and he's like, what happened?
00:05:26 Hollie
And I obviously couldn't even articulate any version of what she told me.
00:05:30 Hollie
So then he called her back.
00:05:33 Hollie
And I'm very blessed in who I married because I am the emotional person.
00:05:38 Hollie
I heard that's purpose well, but he's very practical, logistical, black and white.
00:05:44 Hollie
So he could hear this diagnosis and not just completely plummet where I did.
00:05:49 Hollie
So that was heavy.
00:05:50 Hollie
And the process I feel like was not to fault the genetics, but you don't really understand the complexities of this until you have to get your kid tested.
00:06:00 Hollie
Yeah.
00:06:01 Hollie
So then shortly after we got his diagnosis around, I think it was August, late August maybe, then they referred us to, they wanted to get us a meeting
00:06:11 Hollie
with an orthopedic doctor, a genetics specialist, and then skeletal dysplasia.
00:06:18 Hollie
And they wanted it, they called it the team, but when we called to schedule the appointment, they were like, we can get you in like next May.
00:06:24 Hollie
And we're like, no, that's not how that works.
00:06:28 Hollie
So he more or less demanded like, no, you just gave us this heavy diagnosis.
00:06:31 Hollie
We're not going to just wait seven months.
00:06:34 Hollie
But I think it was not life threatening.
00:06:36 Hollie
They were like, it's not that big of a deal.
00:06:38 Hollie
I'm like, no, this has completely altered our world.
00:06:42 Hollie
So he fought back, pushed back a little bit, and they got us opportunities to meet with each of those people separately.
00:06:48 Hollie
And we haven't actually ever met with them collectively, which I don't really know if that mattered, but.
00:06:56 Jesse
So the reason I do that is because there are a lot of other things within the skeletal dysplasia team setting that are more common and or more treatable, just different things.
00:07:06 Jesse
And so like in those scenarios, it can make some sense.
00:07:11 Jesse
But when we first started getting more appointments and meetings with the doctors, they finally sort of admitted to us, well, we've never had a kid with this here.
00:07:19 Jesse
So like you start to realize like, okay, you guys can talk to each other, but
00:07:24 Jesse
You don't have answers.
00:07:25 Jesse
We're all just kind of guessing.
00:07:27 Hollie
The other hard part too is if you Google it, the current research is like 1970s.
00:07:33 Hollie
So it's like black and white images.
00:07:34 Hollie
And like, if there is documentation, it's alarming and scary or it's very not specific.
00:07:43 Hollie
So I'm like, I don't even know what this means.
00:07:45 Hollie
Like, what does this entail?
00:07:47 Hollie
And we were very blessed in that
00:07:52 Hollie
We got wind of, when you Google this, there was a boy who TLC had done an episode on.
00:08:00 Hollie
Oh, wow.
00:08:01 Hollie
He was from out east.
00:08:03 Jesse
About nine years ago.
00:08:03 Jesse
Eight years ago.
00:08:04 Hollie
Yeah, it was dated a little bit, but he had moved out east and then we found out that he had actually moved about an hour and a half from us.
00:08:13 Hollie
Wow.
00:08:14 Hollie
So like, what are the odds of this is so rare in the world and we have someone
00:08:18 Hollie
in driving distance.
00:08:19 Hollie
So we actually got to meet him last summer and have a cool friendship with him.
00:08:23 Hollie
He's 18 and he excitedly is like, I want to be Bedford's mentor.
00:08:28 Hollie
So just knowing that we have someone when Bedford becomes of age to comprehend his differences, you're able to talk to an actual kid.
00:08:38 Hollie
At that point, he's going to be like in his 20s, but like a practical.
00:08:42 Hollie
And the cool thing with him too is he started like a football podcast.
00:08:47 Hollie
and has quite the following on social media.
00:08:49 Hollie
So he's been in like all these Super Bowl games, he's meeting these NFL players and is making a name for himself.
00:08:55 Hollie
So it's been cool to support each other in that way.
00:08:58 Hollie
But then we joined the Facebook groups like you're supposed to, and people posted like once every three years and 99% of the time it was in another language.
00:09:06 Hollie
So we're like, this is not helpful whatsoever, which is why I took to social media.
00:09:10 Hollie
Like I randomly thought one day, I actually started posting on Instagram
00:09:16 Hollie
solely because everywhere I went, someone in our community stopped me because they heard about his diagnosis.
00:09:21 Hollie
And because there's nothing to really Google, I think everyone felt it was like a cancer diagnosis.
00:09:28 Hollie
So there was like a lot of like pitying, we're praying for full healing.
00:09:32 Hollie
And I'm like, you can't pray this away.
00:09:35 Hollie
He is, genetic makeup.
00:09:37 Hollie
But I was like crying in the grocery store.
00:09:39 Hollie
I'm like, I can't, I need to help educate
00:09:43 Hollie
are people in a way where I know that they mean well, but I'm struggling, which is why I then started just posting updates like, hey, I went to this doctor's appointment.
00:09:51 Hollie
These are the very specific prayer requests or these are the needs or this is what we're going through.
00:09:57 Hollie
But then I've always loved writing and being an encourager, but then people would still stop me and be like, I loved your post.
00:10:03 Hollie
It was so motivating.
00:10:04 Hollie
And I'm like, I meant for people to kind of like leave me alone, but I did the opposite.
00:10:10 Hollie
Because I struggled those first few months.
00:10:11 Hollie
I would say from September through probably maybe even into the next year.
00:10:19 Hollie
Like I think I went like a few weeks without, not eating, but just sick to my stomach.
00:10:24 Hollie
Like maybe I should go to the emergency room.
00:10:26 Hollie
I started counseling.
00:10:28 Hollie
Just, it feels very dramatic now, but in the moment, like what does this mean for him?
00:10:32 Hollie
Like talking to my counselor, I'm like, is he ever gonna get married?
00:10:35 Hollie
Is he gonna be able to drive?
00:10:36 Hollie
Is he,
00:10:37 Hollie
going to hate life?
00:10:39 Hollie
Is he going to hate us?
00:10:40 Hollie
Like, obviously, one of questions that he's 1 1/2 at the time.
00:10:44 Hollie
Stop living in the future, live in the day today.
00:10:46 Hollie
And then whimsically, I was like, I wonder if I posted on TikTok, if it would reach a broader audience and I'll use hashtags and then
00:10:57 Hollie
I wouldn't go back to the app for like a week and a half because I didn't want to just doom scroll TikTok.
00:11:02 Hollie
And then one week I'm like, hey, Jesse.
00:11:05 Hollie
So I did a thing and his page went viral because he was like, don't use TikTok.
00:11:12 Hollie
And then he had to come face to face with like, oh no, is this, is this okay?
00:11:16 Hollie
Like it went viral and here we are.
00:11:18 Hollie
So there's no turning back.
00:11:20 Hollie
And then obviously it's just been like a snowball since, but yeah.
00:11:26 Rachel
I mean, everything you guys are talking about as far as the initial phase of the diagnosis and like the intense like grief and fear that can be associated with that, I think is very common for any diagnosis, but then especially like rare incidents, it's just like, there's no roadmap.
00:11:47 Rachel
There's no like,
00:11:48 Rachel
clear path and like that uncertainty can feel so scary for families.
00:11:54 Rachel
And so I think that that I'm happy that you shared so so vulnerably about that because I think that's a huge piece of this journey is just like
00:12:05 Rachel
the not knowing.
00:12:06 Rachel
And then like, as you start kind of building more knowing and like he's obviously like building skills and he's like growing and learning and you're talking with people and you're connecting it like, it feels like that is part of kind of the process that can unfold after that, that initial stage of diagnosis.
00:12:26 Rachel
What would you say like helped you the most during that time, that like challenging time where you were just kind of waiting in the fear of the unknown?
00:12:36 Hollie
Without starting to cry.
00:12:39 Hollie
Our community was so good to us.
00:12:43 Hollie
Just, I work at the school that our older son goes to, very tight-knit community, our church community, our friend community.
00:12:53 Hollie
I remember sitting on my patio, just like weeping to my parents about it.
00:12:57 Hollie
And in the midst of all this, like my dad is,
00:13:02 Hollie
My dad is battling cancer.
00:13:04 Hollie
Sorry, I'm trying to make sure I don't correct.
00:13:06 Hollie
He just, the way that he sort of positioned my thought process to be like, God clearly has called you to be an encourager to try to help people.
00:13:18 Hollie
And now you get to do that with your son.
00:13:21 Hollie
So it was just a cool pivot of, I don't know, you set out and this is my career path.
00:13:26 Hollie
And like, yes, as a mom, my kids are, you shift when you get into motherhood.
00:13:33 Hollie
But especially with the direction that Bedford social media took, like it almost feels like an entire new, I don't know, focus on our life has opened.
00:13:45 Hollie
And I always thought I would be here and it was very like small.
00:13:50 Hollie
And now it's like,
00:13:51 Hollie
all because of Bedford.
00:13:52 Hollie
And if I didn't have Bedford, something that I tell people often, I want to encourage people.
00:13:58 Hollie
And in another life, I wouldn't be able to encourage rare moms or moms with special needs because I didn't have any skin in the game.
00:14:06 Hollie
And now I have a seat at that table to where I can say like, hey, I'm going through it too.
00:14:10 Hollie
So just that probably has been the thing that has grounded me the most of I can sit here and I can mourn it.
00:14:20 Hollie
Or I can say like, no, this is what God's called me to do.
00:14:22 Hollie
This is what my life is going to look like now.
00:14:24 Hollie
And I'm not going to sit around and let life happen to me.
00:14:29 Hollie
Like I want Bedford and our older boy to grow up in a world where things happen and you react and they can still be used for good.
00:14:37 Hollie
So.
00:14:39 Rachel
Yeah, I love that.
00:14:40 Rachel
And I think it's like,
00:14:43 Rachel
It's a normal human experience to go through that initial stage of all of the emotions.
00:14:48 Rachel
And feeling that is such an important part of the process.
00:14:51 Rachel
But there gets a turning point where you can choose to keep suffering and keep living in fear.
00:14:57 Rachel
And conversely, you can choose a different path.
00:15:00 Rachel
You can choose to shape a different mindset.
00:15:03 Rachel
And I feel like that's exactly what you have done.
00:15:06 Rachel
And I
00:15:07 Rachel
I think that's a beautiful thing that you can share with other families that are going through similar things.
00:15:12 Rachel
And it's one of the coolest things about the like hyper connectedness that we now have with social media.
00:15:20 Rachel
There's a lot of bad things about it, like doom scrolling, like for sure.
00:15:25 Rachel
But one of the beautiful things is like, there's never been an easier time to connect and share your story with other humans and in a really impactful way.
00:15:36 Rachel
And so I think that it's awesome that we can connect with other people.
00:15:40 Rachel
And I'm sure that you guys have even more of an impact than you realize with the work that you're doing.
00:15:46 Jesse
Yeah, I mean, so a couple of things.
00:15:49 Jesse
I feel like we jumped ahead a little, but yeah, I mean, for me, it was a little different.
00:15:54 Jesse
I did not react immediately and felt like-- I mean, and this--
00:16:02 Jesse
I just wanted to say this just for other dads, because I think dads are sort of overlooked a lot in that those kind of scenarios, because when kids, especially are young, like it's the mom and that's and that's the right thing.
00:16:14 Jesse
But the dads have a different experience.
00:16:16 Jesse
Like I felt like I had to protect my family.
00:16:18 Jesse
I felt like I had to act like everything was OK, you know, and be the strong one.
00:16:25 Jesse
And so when Holly so Holly sort of plummeted right away and then a few months later, we flip-flopped.
00:16:32 Jesse
That wasn't, I wouldn't call that a healthy thing.
00:16:35 Jesse
It's just kind of what happened.
00:16:38 Jesse
And so, I mean, it's been sort of a journey for both of us and working through it in very different settings and different ways and different thought processes.
00:16:46 Jesse
I mean, for me, so one of the things about this, the research for it, there were only 150 recorded cases since the 1960s globally.
00:16:56 Jesse
Wow.
00:16:58 Jesse
They and we found now that there's probably a closer like 2000 of them, but that's still about a one in a billion.
00:17:06 Jesse
And so when you think about those numbers, like for me, as more of a logical person, that's what really struck me and sort of messed with my head a little bit.
00:17:13 Jesse
Like, you can't fathom this rarity.
00:17:16 Jesse
You can't.
00:17:17 Jesse
And it was very lonely for both of us in different ways and together, because, like, truly, there is nobody
00:17:27 Jesse
The doctors are trying to help, our people are trying to help, but nobody can truly understand the specific thing you're going through.
00:17:34 Jesse
And we're discovering what that is going to mean for his life at the same time that his doctors are discovering it.
00:17:39 Jesse
And that's sort of a weird thing because usually you get a diagnosis or more often than not, right?
00:17:46 Jesse
It's like, oh, the kid has this or the person has this.
00:17:50 Jesse
that means, these kind of milestones and when about these things will happen and what have you, or here's the path to, making this better.
00:18:01 Jesse
And we had none of that, literally zero.
00:18:05 Jesse
It's all trial and error.
00:18:07 Jesse
There is no path.
00:18:08 Jesse
There, you know, one of the things she said to me on the phone three times, the first time she told us the diagnosis was, this is progressive and permanent.
00:18:16 Jesse
And she said it to me three different times.
00:18:18 Jesse
And later on, I kind of looked back and went,
00:18:20 Jesse
As people started to react to it around us, that's when I started to realize why she was so adamant with me about it, because immediately you get the, well, how can you make this better?
00:18:30 Jesse
How can you heal this?
00:18:31 Jesse
How can you, what are the, what's the doctor's program we're going to go through?
00:18:36 Jesse
What's the hospital we need to go to?
00:18:37 Jesse
You know, just all these different things.
00:18:39 Jesse
And she wanted me to be very aware this is not a, you're not going to go out and find the solution for this.
00:18:47 Jesse
is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.
00:18:49 Jesse
Like, so I really was thankful for that.
00:18:54 Jesse
So I just wanted to add that to sort of the processing part of it.
00:18:57 Rachel
Yeah, I appreciate that because I do think that there's different, every human processes things in different ways, but I do think there's, there's usually a difference between kind of the masculine and feminine ways of dealing and processing.
00:19:11 Rachel
And so, yeah, I appreciate you sharing that.
00:19:13 Rachel
And it's, yeah, I'm sure it was like such a heavy,
00:19:18 Rachel
hit to hear like permanent and progressive, especially knowing that like, well, what does that mean?
00:19:25 Rachel
Right?
00:19:25 Rachel
Like there's nuance to that.
00:19:27 Rachel
And it's like, yeah, it's just like, how, how could you possibly know?
00:19:31 Rachel
And it's like, you know, there's so many different competing factors, meaning like, okay, what does this mean for development of skills?
00:19:38 Rachel
And like, what does that life look like?
00:19:40 Rachel
And also like the whole medical side of the equation, like what does this look like medically?
00:19:46 Rachel
So can you speak a little bit to like what you've learned about his diagnosis and just like what's going on with him currently?
00:19:55 Jesse
Yeah, so it has been sort of an evolving thing and I have sort of an interesting ending to it.
00:20:02 Jesse
So what Schwarz-Janpel syndrome is, it's a line of genetic code that if there is an issue within that genetic code, you have this.
00:20:12 Jesse
And
00:20:13 Jesse
It means that your muscles are super tight.
00:20:15 Jesse
They are always contracting through your whole body from top of your head to your toes.
00:20:22 Jesse
And that means a lot of things more than what it sounds like.
00:20:24 Jesse
The first thing and most obvious thing is that it affects bone growth because your muscles are restricting the bone's growth.
00:20:31 Jesse
So the very first thing we saw in the X-rays, you can see it very clearly, was his legs are sort of bowed like that.
00:20:37 Jesse
which causes, issues with growth and height and things like that.
00:20:41 Jesse
But over time, we started to find other things like his hips are not closing the way they're supposed to.
00:20:45 Jesse
We started to learn about how that actually happens with kids because we had no idea.
00:20:51 Jesse
They have smaller mouths.
00:20:54 Jesse
So like their jaws are smaller.
00:20:56 Jesse
And so his teeth, as they started to grow and come in, started to grow inwards.
00:21:00 Jesse
If you like look at his teeth, they almost, they just all sort of point in.
00:21:05 Jesse
And that causes like the teeth to start to overlap more.
00:21:08 Hollie
And his jaw, because it's tight, will not expand to be able to reach back.
00:21:15 Jesse
So chewing is hard.
00:21:16 Hollie
Chewing's harder, which means dental issues, which we didn't expect.
00:21:19 Hollie
So now we're looking at like cavities, even though we brush his teeth and floss, and he yells at us every single night because his mouth can't open the way that ours can.
00:21:29 Hollie
So it's just stuff that you don't think about.
00:21:30 Hollie
Like if you look at him, he has a six-pack.
00:21:33 Hollie
His traps look like they're flexed constantly.
00:21:36 Hollie
His eyebrows are up all the time, even when he was sleeping.
00:21:39 Hollie
So we thought was.
00:21:41 Hollie
They don't relax.
00:21:42 Hollie
Like nothing ever relaxes.
00:21:44 Hollie
So everyone's always like, oh, is this baby in pain 24-7?
00:21:47 Hollie
Yes, but he also doesn't know any different.
00:21:50 Hollie
So it's hard for us to gauge, is he truly in pain 24-7?
00:21:55 Hollie
There are certain movements that will make him
00:21:58 Hollie
Yelp, he does.
00:22:00 Hollie
have muscle spasms a few months ago.
00:22:01 Hollie
He had one in his neck and he was positioned like this for probably three days and we had to like myofascial release it.
00:22:10 Hollie
So it's almost like a massage doesn't necessarily work.
00:22:13 Hollie
PT doesn't necessarily work because you can't stretch him.
00:22:17 Hollie
He can't hinge at the hip.
00:22:20 Hollie
It almost is like his legs are constantly locked, which makes if we tried to walk with our legs locked, obviously we would look awkward doing it.
00:22:29 Jesse
So he has a hard time jumping.
00:22:30 Hollie
Jumping and he can't run.
00:22:32 Jesse
Stares are about impossible.
00:22:34 Hollie
So it's just very limited range of motion, which is why his PT was like, hey, let's get him a walker.
00:22:40 Hollie
More for stability.
00:22:41 Hollie
He can walk.
00:22:42 Hollie
It's just that he doesn't have the dexterity to catch himself because it's like he's like a plank.
00:22:47 Hollie
So a walker does help, but he very stubbornly often is like, I don't want it.
00:22:52 Jesse
I think one of the biggest things for us, partially because we have nothing to point to in most cases, is the impact it would have on us in ways you never think of.
00:23:01 Jesse
People, and people like, it's not that they don't mean well, they do, but they have no idea the things that we deal with on a day-to-day basis, such as a car seat.
00:23:10 Jesse
You can't buckle his car seat.
00:23:11 Jesse
He's like a plane.
00:23:11 Hollie
You can't buckle it well.
00:23:13 Hollie
We can't buckle him in the car seat.
00:23:16 Jesse
We had to get the bigger car seat for his age than we were supposed to in order to do that, Also, because he's sort of a plank, as soon as you carry him once, you know what we're talking about, but...
00:23:31 Hollie
A Gumby, like most kids are flimsy, noodly.
00:23:35 Jesse
So it's much harder on us.
00:23:37 Jesse
So like we have now a lot of back issues now because of that.
00:23:43 Jesse
And we have to carry him more often than our parents do because he can't.
00:23:48 Hollie
Like if it's icy outside or there's a place we have to get to quickly.
00:23:53 Jesse
There's small things in the day that you don't really think about.
00:23:57 Jesse
And like even the carrying thing, we didn't think much of it until later on when we started having doctor's appointments and things and they were like, Yeah, you're hurting yourself.
00:24:05 Jesse
So it's just, you know, there's just different things.
00:24:08 Jesse
You just really don't.
00:24:10 Rachel
Yeah.
00:24:11 Rachel
Yeah.
00:24:11 Rachel
You wouldn't know it until you're in it and you're like experiencing kind of the nuances of of something like this.
00:24:18 Hollie
Right.
00:24:18 Jesse
And it's hard too, because like, I think
00:24:21 Jesse
at least for me, especially, Holly was better about this before, but it's given me a lot of new perspective on you don't really know what people are dealing with on a day-to-day basis.
00:24:32 Jesse
And more grace and more kindness is really important because sometimes they just are being not a great human or whatnot.
00:24:41 Jesse
But also you just don't know.
00:24:43 Jesse
I mean, people, the amount of times we've been in situations where we're like, man, if they knew what we were dealing with.
00:24:50 Rachel
Totally.
00:24:51 Jesse
But maybe they treat us different or maybe they wouldn't have reacted that way.
00:24:54 Jesse
But it's a hard thing.
00:24:57 Rachel
I think that's incredibly important for educators and clinicians to think about because, you know, we get in our silos and we're like, okay, I'm here to work on speech and communication and like, here's your homework.
00:25:10 Rachel
And like, they come back and it's like, you didn't do your homework.
00:25:12 Rachel
And like, we can be so in our own lane, like broadening out and being like, okay, what's actually happening?
00:25:20 Rachel
at home, oftentimes we can't even begin to fathom the types of things that families are dealing with on a medical basis, like just all the kind of nuances of like, well, we didn't sleep because of this and that.
00:25:34 Rachel
And I actually have PT and OT and all these other things to be juggling as well.
00:25:40 Rachel
And so I think it's a really good reminder for educators and clinicians, especially like you don't know
00:25:46 Rachel
You don't know what's going on behind the scenes and giving more grace and patience and understanding.
00:25:52 Rachel
And really the way I think about it as a therapist is like, I'm there to support families.
00:25:58 Rachel
I'm there to figure out a way to support.
00:26:00 Rachel
And sometimes that support doesn't look like speech therapy necessarily.
00:26:04 Rachel
It's like, what's going on?
00:26:06 Rachel
OK, let's talk about it.
00:26:07 Rachel
I'm here to listen.
00:26:08 Rachel
I'm here to brainstorm and troubleshoot with you.
00:26:11 Rachel
So I'm happy that you mentioned that because I feel like it's such an important reminder for educators, especially.
00:26:17 Jesse
We have a PT and an OT that like there was part of the early intervention program and they jumped right in with him and have been angels.
00:26:27 Jesse
Yeah, there's really no better word.
00:26:28 Jesse
They went to a event in Saint Louis with us to that was for supporting his playground.
00:26:34 Jesse
They have done lots of free work with him.
00:26:38 Jesse
They've come to our house.
00:26:38 Jesse
They are.
00:26:40 Jesse
I don't know what we would have done without them.
00:26:42 Jesse
I mean, they truly, it's not a job for them.
00:26:47 Rachel
That's the mark of a good therapist is like, you just tell like they're, they love helping people and like, that's like why they're in it.
00:26:54 Rachel
And so I'm so happy that you've been blessed with that level of support and care.
00:27:00 Rachel
That's amazing.
00:27:02 Rachel
Okay, let's talk about the playground because that's how I found you guys.
00:27:06 Rachel
And I love this idea of inclusion.
00:27:09 Rachel
Like I said, at the beginning of the episode, it's so sad that like there's so many places that are so inaccessible to kids and adults.
00:27:18 Rachel
So tell me a little bit about the genesis of the inclusive playground.
00:27:22 Jesse
Yeah, I'll tell you tell the story just real quick.
00:27:24 Jesse
I mean, so when she built the social media pages, and they took off, we started getting like,
00:27:30 Jesse
$10,000 a day, really quick.
00:27:33 Jesse
Yeah.
00:27:33 Jesse
And so just leading into this, like we started getting messages from all kinds of people, some who were like bots and whatever, but others that just would give us these stories of like how much he has impacted them.
00:27:46 Jesse
And we're sitting here like, this kid is more famous than his parents.
00:27:51 Jesse
This kid is.
00:27:53 Hollie
Definitely.
00:27:54 Jesse
Reaching so many people that.
00:27:56 Hollie
The playground is obviously such a cool story, but the amount of people that messaged us like so encouraged, like, I mean, whether it's true or not, like I was wanting to hurt myself tonight and I saw your video and it got me out of this slump.
00:28:09 Hollie
And I'm like, what in the world is my- What's happening?
00:28:13 Hollie
My words and my two-year-old
00:28:16 Hollie
the impact on these strangers across.
00:28:18 Hollie
Because I don't like message people.
00:28:19 Hollie
I don't comment on things.
00:28:20 Hollie
So it's a new world of things and I share things, but I don't necessarily comment.
00:28:26 Hollie
So to have to like dialogue with all these people, like they took the time out of their day to write me this big long paragraph.
00:28:31 Hollie
Like I felt like, do we quit our jobs and just respond to all of these messages?
00:28:35 Hollie
So that was very cool.
00:28:36 Hollie
But the genesis of the playground last spring when we got, we live in the Midwest.
00:28:42 Hollie
So when we got some few nice days, I would go to the park and our older son is like, every morning is Christmas morning to him.
00:28:48 Hollie
So lots of energy.
00:28:51 Hollie
And Bedford wanted to keep up with him and go to the high places, high, meaning like the top of the playground equipment.
00:28:57 Hollie
And he was at that age where like, mom should be present anyway.
00:29:00 Hollie
I can't just sit on the bench and scroll while you guys do stuff.
00:29:03 Hollie
And being next to him and realizing, wow, he literally can't do like any of these things.
00:29:10 Hollie
And we were at a playground that had the turf.
00:29:14 Hollie
We did not have the walker yet, but I was like looking around.
00:29:18 Hollie
I'm like, he can't, he can't do any of this stuff.
00:29:20 Hollie
Like if he's supposed to be starting school next year, like most of the playgrounds in our area, like don't, like he literally cannot do anything.
00:29:28 Hollie
So I made that one post and was like, if I could,
00:29:31 Hollie
If I had all the money in the world, I would make every park Bedford friendly.
00:29:34 Hollie
And the internet didn't know what to make of that because apparently there is a city in the UK called Bedford.
00:29:40 Hollie
So they were like, what are you talking about?
00:29:43 Hollie
And then people started commenting saying he's not going to get bullied for his condition.
00:29:46 Hollie
He's going to get bullied for his name.
00:29:47 Hollie
And I was like, sorry, I didn't consult you before I named my child.
00:29:51 Hollie
But so that was hard for me because that's the video that took off.
00:29:54 Hollie
And I'm like, why are these people so mean?
00:29:56 Hollie
And Jesse's like, you're going to have to be okay with this if you want to keep doing social media.
00:29:59 Hollie
And I got over it.
00:30:00 Hollie
Like people just like to troll.
00:30:03 Hollie
But that is the video that sparked millions of views.
00:30:08 Hollie
And then I just, that started to be my thing.
00:30:11 Hollie
Like then I was,
00:30:12 Hollie
we are going to more playgrounds.
00:30:13 Hollie
And I'm like, legitimately, he can't do anything.
00:30:15 Hollie
And people think, oh, this playground has turf.
00:30:19 Hollie
And I'm like, it does.
00:30:19 Hollie
But then once he gets on the turf, he can't go anywhere or do anything.
00:30:24 Hollie
Or my favorite is there would be a ramp down to the mulch.
00:30:29 Hollie
And I'm like, how does that help?
00:30:31 Hollie
I mean, what do we do once we get down the ramp?
00:30:35 Hollie
Down the mulch.
00:30:37 Hollie
So then our PT and OT got him the walker.
00:30:39 Hollie
So then I would start posting videos of him navigating playgrounds.
00:30:42 Hollie
And the one that randomly will go viral like once a month, I feel like, is the one where he's getting over the curb.
00:30:50 Hollie
And what I always tell people, and you can see it if you watch the whole video, he wanted snacks out of frame.
00:30:56 Hollie
And he was at the age where he was like, get it for me.
00:30:58 Hollie
And I was like, no, you can do it.
00:31:01 Hollie
So then just obviously coaching him through that.
00:31:03 Hollie
I coached volleyball for years.
00:31:04 Hollie
So I feel like I do have that.
00:31:07 Hollie
coaching the natural, like, no, let's do this, you can do it, you can do it.
00:31:10 Hollie
And for whatever reason, the internet was like, I love watching this two-year-old succeed.
00:31:15 Hollie
But then obviously he was able to do it on his own the second time, even easier.
00:31:21 Hollie
So just navigating that.
00:31:23 Hollie
And then the son of one of the women who are connected with the nonprofit Unlimited Play,
00:31:30 Hollie
had messaged me, but on TikTok, he can only message once.
00:31:33 Hollie
Like, hi, or something.
00:31:35 Hollie
So he couldn't message me.
00:31:37 Hollie
So then he started commenting on all the videos and was like, I messaged you, but I can't message you again.
00:31:42 Hollie
Trying to get on the bus.
00:31:43 Hollie
So I went and found him and was like, sorry, that was our dryer.
00:31:48 Hollie
It's like, hey, Jesse, this looks like a legit company or a nonprofit.
00:31:52 Hollie
Like, what does it hurt?
00:31:53 Hollie
So I sent them a very bland, like, hey, this person username messaged me.
00:31:59 Hollie
told me to reach out to you.
00:32:00 Hollie
So here I am.
00:32:00 Hollie
And they're like, yes, we love, we saw a Bedford story.
00:32:02 Hollie
We would love to set up a Zoom call with you.
00:32:05 Hollie
I was at a park taking that Zoom call.
00:32:07 Hollie
He was at home with the boys.
00:32:09 Hollie
And it was really just them talking about their mission behind it.
00:32:13 Hollie
Natalie, the founder, was in the same position that we were.
00:32:18 Hollie
Her son was on the sidelines and she took upon herself to raise funds for almost $1,000,000 playground in her city so her son could play.
00:32:26 Hollie
And then everyone was like, can you do one in our city?
00:32:28 Hollie
And she was like, no, this was way too hard.
00:32:30 Hollie
I'm not doing it again.
00:32:31 Hollie
And then 20 years later, this is what she's doing with her life.
00:32:33 Hollie
But it was just cool that she was sharing this story.
00:32:37 Hollie
And I don't know what I, at the time, I did not know anything about this stuff.
00:32:41 Hollie
I know that it costs lots of money.
00:32:43 Hollie
I was not thinking like, I'm gonna get a playground out of this.
00:32:47 Hollie
In May, I had to whimsically said to the principal at the school that I was at,
00:32:53 Hollie
if Bedford's going to start school here, he won't be able to play on the playground.
00:32:55 Hollie
And I said to him, I'm getting him a playground.
00:32:58 Hollie
Like kind of joking, he might have that relationship.
00:32:59 Hollie
And he kind of laughed at me.
00:33:02 Hollie
And then like a month later, we're having this Zoom call with these gals and they were like, hey, we have some, let's talk with our grant writing team and we'll get back to you.
00:33:10 Hollie
I was getting my hair done and she had a message of like, hey, can you hop on a Zoom call?
00:33:16 Hollie
I'm like, we're not really going to hop on audio.
00:33:18 Hollie
And I'm thinking like,
00:33:19 Hollie
They found us a grant.
00:33:20 Hollie
And again, I'm so ignorant of, at the time, playgrounds.
00:33:24 Hollie
I'm thinking like $100,000, there's still a lot, but like if they could help us, whatever.
00:33:29 Hollie
So then we hop on the call and they're already clearly visibly emotional.
00:33:34 Hollie
And they can't see me because I have the tinfoil in my hair and all that.
00:33:38 Hollie
And they're like, we have an annual gala every fall where we raise funds for general playground and we would love to feature Bedford at our gala.
00:33:46 Hollie
And I'm like,
00:33:49 Hollie
Like we don't even know you.
00:33:50 Hollie
And I'm like crying because I'm a crier.
00:33:52 Hollie
And I'm like, Jessie, could you say anything?
00:33:55 Hollie
And it pans to him on my phone.
00:33:58 Hollie
And he has his head down like crying too.
00:34:00 Hollie
So yeah, we went to St.
00:34:02 Hollie
Louis in October and were able to share a small portion of Bedford's story on stage.
00:34:10 Hollie
And Little Tikes agreed to match dollar for dollar that was raised that night.
00:34:15 Hollie
And
00:34:16 Hollie
I think we walked away from the gala with about.
00:34:20 Jesse
It's almost 300,000.
00:34:23 Hollie
Wow.
00:34:23 Hollie
Total was the playground, but that night I think we walked away with a little bit too.
00:34:28 Jesse
The playground's more than that.
00:34:30 Jesse
It was a 300,000 that we raised that night.
00:34:32 Hollie
So yeah, so then we had obviously a huge chunk of change to work with.
00:34:36 Hollie
And I'm like, this is this is our reality.
00:34:38 Hollie
And so then we started selling T-shirts with
00:34:42 Hollie
meet you at the curb, which my parents actually were like, it was from my caption where I put, do something hard today, Bedford will meet you at the curb.
00:34:49 Hollie
And they were like, throw that on a t-shirt and sell it.
00:34:51 Hollie
And I haven't checked in a while, but we were pushing like almost 1000 t-shirts.
00:34:55 Jesse
Over 1000, yeah.
00:34:56 Hollie
Wow.
00:34:57 Hollie
Crazy that these people are like wearing it to work out in because it motivates them.
00:35:02 Hollie
I see them randomly in the community, people that I'm like friends with, obviously, but then people that I'm not overly connected with and they have a Bedford shirt on and I'm like,
00:35:10 Hollie
You bought one of my boys shirts.
00:35:13 Hollie
So then just people started coming out of the woodworks.
00:35:17 Hollie
Like we decorate our house for Christmas lights and we want to put his sign out front with the link to the thing and keep looking down there like a bunch.
00:35:26 Hollie
Oh, it's like a Christmas concert.
00:35:30 Hollie
I had a girl that I played basketball against in high school reach out and was like, I make cookies like I'll
00:35:35 Hollie
do a giveaway, like everyone wanting to give.
00:35:38 Hollie
And I don't, we haven't addressed this, and I don't know if you've seen It's a Wonderful Life, the movie.
00:35:42 Hollie
That is where his name comes from.
00:35:45 Hollie
And just the end scene with George Bailey standing there with the table and everyone's just dumping money on the table.
00:35:51 Hollie
I was like, this is bad for his life.
00:35:52 Hollie
Like the name showing and coming to fruition before he's even 3, where people, it feels like people are just dumping their change, like anything that they have to help bring this
00:36:05 Hollie
vision to life.
00:36:06 Hollie
And then I started making more pointed posts on Instagram, like, hey, he has 200,000 followers if every single person gave a dollar.
00:36:13 Hollie
And then we would get texts from Unlimited Play where they're like, did you just make a post?
00:36:18 Hollie
Because there was like notification if notification.
00:36:20 Jesse
Like I have screenshots of just like people doing literally a dollar or more.
00:36:25 Hollie
But yeah, we like, we hit every single state in the US and like we're up to like 40 countries where people have given.
00:36:35 Hollie
where they saw Bedford's story.
00:36:37 Hollie
So yeah, we Monday or Sunday, we broke ground, which is crazy.
00:36:43 Hollie
And it decided to rain every day since then.
00:36:46 Hollie
So it's been like a muddy mess.
00:36:48 Hollie
But for all of this to happen, and it's not even May, like it hasn't even been a year since I spoke it into existence.
00:36:56 Hollie
But legitimately, I was like, praying so hard, like, put me in the path of whoever knows how to build these things.
00:37:04 Hollie
And a month later, like on a silver platter, it felt like, because I was asking some city friends, like, how do I build a playground?
00:37:11 Hollie
I don't know.
00:37:12 Hollie
Back in ChatGPT, how do I build a playground?
00:37:13 Hollie
Like, how do I ask people to care about this?
00:37:16 Hollie
Yeah.
00:37:17 Jesse
It's happened since then.
00:37:17 Jesse
I mean, there's a couple cool little pieces that like have happened through this time too.
00:37:21 Jesse
Like she said, over 50 countries have donated, people from 50 countries have donated.
00:37:26 Jesse
So we've been getting support from the whole world, which is amazing.
00:37:32 Jesse
In addition to that, because the page kept blowing up, what we now have is a bunch of parents messaging us in every language in every country you can imagine.
00:37:41 Jesse
We have a child.
00:37:42 Jesse
We don't know what to do.
00:37:44 Jesse
Can you give us?
00:37:45 Hollie
Wait, SJS.
00:37:46 Hollie
Wow.
00:37:48 Hollie
Last week alone, we had someone from Portugal reach out and this boy's 5 and he is the closest to the stiffness factor that we've seen with Bedford.
00:37:58 Hollie
He can't bend either.
00:37:59 Hollie
Most of the other kids that we've connected with can bend.
00:38:02 Hollie
We had a mom from Denmark.
00:38:03 Hollie
Like, it's bonkers that people are coming to us and are like, we felt so alone, all because I started using the hashtag.
00:38:10 Jesse
And they have got each other.
00:38:11 Jesse
We are their support in this.
00:38:14 Hollie
And it's, we don't know what we're doing, but these people are coming to us.
00:38:17 Hollie
I'm like, do we host a sports gym club convention?
00:38:19 Hollie
Like, yeah.
00:38:21 Jesse
So we've been able to help people all over the world, like, just start to figure out their journey with this as well, which has been a really cool thing.
00:38:30 Jesse
The playground exceeded its initial ask.
00:38:33 Jesse
And so we're adding a second section to that.
00:38:36 Jesse
We've already ordered four new pieces of equipment that were in addition to the plan.
00:38:40 Hollie
So we are still fundraising because the school is having an auction and they're adding a paved area where kids can play.
00:38:47 Hollie
So as Bedford ages out of wanting to play on a playground, there's going to be a covered
00:38:54 Hollie
cemented area where it would be walker or wheelchair friendly.
00:38:57 Hollie
So to truly make that entire area of the school outdoor area inclusive has been such a blessing.
00:39:05 Jesse
And I mean, just the people we've gotten to connect with and meet has just been incredible.
00:39:11 Jesse
I mean, our lives have truly just changed.
00:39:15 Jesse
It's a very different world for us now.
00:39:17 Jesse
And yeah, we're not really sure what to expect next, but.
00:39:21 Jesse
It's different.
00:39:22 Rachel
Yeah.
00:39:23 Rachel
at least you have pulled together like more and more community around an amazing cause, but also just connecting with other families that are now able to understand a little bit more about their children and vice versa.
00:39:39 Rachel
I'm sure like there's an exchange there of like sharing.
00:39:44 Jesse
So one of the really awesome things about this too is like we've actually really grown to love unlimited play and the people that run it, obviously, like we've become close with them.
00:39:52 Jesse
But they do, they do like 100 playgrounds.
00:39:55 Jesse
They've done over 100 playgrounds and they're growing really quick now.
00:39:59 Jesse
And so like Bedford's story and the way we fundraise was something very new for them.
00:40:04 Jesse
They've never had that happen.
00:40:05 Jesse
And so
00:40:07 Jesse
We've been talking to them a lot.
00:40:08 Jesse
We're actually going to be starting to help them do more video and marketing.
00:40:12 Jesse
Our company is so that we can tell the stories of other kids that they're doing these playgrounds for.
00:40:17 Jesse
And it's really just not only pivoted like our direction in life a little bit, but it's also like allowing us to put a shine a light on the stories of other kids that have not Bedford's thing, but something else going on.
00:40:32 Jesse
And with families that don't necessarily know how to do that, don't necessarily
00:40:37 Jesse
maybe aren't encouraged at this point, and maybe they just need that light for them.
00:40:41 Jesse
And so I think that's really, I don't know, it's obviously very early for us in that process, but I think that's one of the things we're most excited about moving forward.
00:40:50 Rachel
I love that.
00:40:51 Rachel
And it's like, it's such a powerful thing to be able to shine that light and give that gift.
00:40:58 Rachel
And that's why I'm really excited that you guys were willing to come on and talk about your story today.
00:41:02 Rachel
I'm super excited to share this episode with all of our listeners.
00:41:07 Rachel
For those who are like, how do I get involved?
00:41:09 Rachel
I want to donate.
00:41:10 Rachel
I want to contribute.
00:41:11 Rachel
I want to follow along.
00:41:12 Rachel
Like, how do people reach you and how do people get involved?
00:41:16 Hollie
I mean, we are we try to be super intentional with the messages.
00:41:22 Hollie
The hard part is sometimes I'll open them on my phone and then he he's supposed to handle the business side of things.
00:41:28 Hollie
I handle the emotional side.
00:41:30 Hollie
But Unlimited Play has a link on their website.
00:41:35 Hollie
It's under
00:41:37 Hollie
in progress playgrounds and you can scroll and find Bedford's, we could send that to you.
00:41:40 Hollie
But that would be probably the best landing place because they, the school was going to try to build the addition on their own, but unlimited play is actually going to absorb the whole project.
00:41:51 Hollie
The school's auction is just going to be what primarily, hopefully funds it.
00:41:56 Hollie
But yeah, people are still giving even today, like people just every time they see something are giving.
00:42:03 Hollie
So any extra
00:42:05 Hollie
is just going to go to keep making it even more involved.
00:42:09 Hollie
But yeah, we love interacting with the amount of rare moms I've met and have tried to also support who are doing similar social media rallying, like just being able to support each other in the causes that they're pushing for.
00:42:24 Hollie
Not everyone is trying to build an inclusive playground, but there are a lot of moms who are trying to bring attention to their kids' specific needs and just supporting each other in that way.
00:42:34 Hollie
And
00:42:35 Hollie
And it's just a cool place to be.
00:42:37 Hollie
So.
00:42:38 Rachel
I love that.
00:42:39 Rachel
I'm so excited.
00:42:40 Rachel
We're going to definitely share your social media handle on our show notes at Wonderful Life with Bedford and any link that we can share for people who want to get involved.
00:42:51 Rachel
This has been such an incredible conversation.
00:42:53 Rachel
I'm really so excited that you opened my message on Instagram and responded because I'm sure you get a ton of messages every day.
00:43:01 Rachel
But I just was like, I was so excited to just see your story.
00:43:06 Rachel
And I was like showing everybody that I know.
00:43:08 Rachel
I was like, look how adorable this kid, look at this inclusive playground.
00:43:11 Rachel
I just like couldn't stop myself.
00:43:13 Rachel
And I was like, why don't I reach out?
00:43:14 Rachel
Like, this would be an amazing podcast interview.
00:43:16 Rachel
And I bet I can help kind of amplify the message.
00:43:20 Rachel
So thank you guys so much for taking the time.
00:43:23 Rachel
And I'm really happy that my message
00:43:26 Rachel
came into your inbox and you saw it and you responded.
00:43:29 Jesse
Really try.
00:43:30 Jesse
We really try.
00:43:30 Jesse
We appreciate you having us on too.
00:43:32 Rachel
Yeah, of course.
00:43:34 Rachel
I'm really excited, of course.
00:43:35 Rachel
Yeah, we'll share when this comes out.
00:43:38 Rachel
And for people listening, I'm Rachel Madel from Talking With Tech here with Jesse and Holly Erickson.
00:43:43 Rachel
Thank you guys so much for listening and we will talk to you next week.